stern repair on my 5.2

Off the top of my head, I would remove rudder/gudgeons, clean up any broken material, lay a few more layers of glass from the inside across the back, and then check the strength. You could sand and fair the outside now, but if it should still be stronger I'd put an aluminum plate inside across the back of the gudgeon and bolt through the glass and through it.

I guess it all depends how much damage was done, though.

Holy crap! It didn't pop even with the pivmatic kick ups on!? Might be a problem that has been developing over time.

Robs advice sounds good, I might go with a stainless plate. If you are going to do it yourself checkout some of the how to videos on youtube. If it were me I would probably take it to a pro and get them to epoxy the plate into the inside of the transom along with the repair. If it is weak on one side it is probably also weak on the other so it might be a good idea to get the other side done at the same time.

rudders and castings are the Achilles heel of most cats.
Hobie's wont pop unless you have a spray of silicone on the cam, mystere's like the lube too...

i was on an A cat that had those "pivmatic" style popups that didn't work when i hit a shallow... i was scared i was going to break a carbon part and have to sell my kidney or something to pay for it.... lucky nothing broke.

There should ba a embeded piece of aluminum in the hull which is what the gudgeons bolt to. Its critical that the piece of aluminum is flat and square inside the hull so the gudgeon bolts on properly. I would find a new piece and have it drilled at a machine shop or DIY in a drill press and tap it making sure the hole is drilled square. getting this aluminum piece square and true in the hull is the key to success. The fiberglass repair is pretty straight forward but the backing plate adds a extra level of difficulty. Take some pics of the damage from the inside and outside and post them or email them to me and i will post them for you. Pics will help determine the best game plan.

Just curious but do you have pivmatice on your boat or just cleats on the tiller arms?

There should already be an alum plate on the inside of the transom, but they are not glassed in, at least they are not on a 6.0, a 5.8 or a 5.7. The rudder gudgens are through bolted with a nyon locking nut on the inside of the hull. If you have the factory pivomatic and it is just a simple 1-1 pull it should kick up easy enough. If some one has modified it to either a 2-1 or 3-1 it will take twice as much or 3 times as much force to kick the rudder up.

I am trying to get the photos. I cracked the top line and both sides of the gudgeon outline, plus a 1.5 inch crack cotinuing down one of the sides. The bottom line of the gudgeon did not crack. I am thinking about a larger backing plate to extend beyond the vertical cracks. Glass both sides and buy pivmatics. 🙁

edited by: golfdad75, Aug 23, 2010 - 06:53 PM

I just bought pivmatics. I bought only the bracket itself, not the whole assembly, as I have to take cleats off to put the pivmatics on, so why would I need new cleats?

Because they pre-drill the holes for the cleats, at 2.125", which only fits one cleat currently made. It does not fit the cleats that you remove to install the pivmatics, or any other cleat that comes on the old nacras. Also, the cleat that it does fit, doesn't come with the fairlead, becket, w/e you want to call it, which is why the pivmatic brackets all have the strap rivetted to the top of their cleat.

Scams, shams, and flim-flams..harrumph.

Just bend over and buy the whole pivmatic assembly.

Terry,
I just skimmed over this thread so sorry if i missed something. I don't see where you have identified what you have. If you had pivmatics when you experienced your problems, then you already had an issue with your transoms. It is not uncommon for the transoms to become weakened and usually the owner is unaware of it. The pivmatics work flawlessly, when used as designed, regardless what others have "heard" or experience. There is always another issue that would cause issues.

Rob,
Not a problem to change out the cleats. I have done it many times. Get rid of the plastic cleats and order the aluminum "clamcleat" brand. Add the fairlead and presto. The reason you want to use the alloy cleat is the plastic ones will get burned and grooved by the line friction, then they will not hold down well resulting in line slippage, and weather helm. Use the existing hole in the pivmatic that is closest to the fairlead, and drill a new rear hole for the other. That rivot is always under compression so it's not that technical, and a new hole next to an existing hole is a non-issue. It's easy to do and doesn't take long.

close up here:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=76048&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

I found after closer inspection that the stern had been repaired one time already. Either I tore the entire top of the stern out from the hull(under the lip) or it never was connected. We sanded the whole top half and put 3 sheets being sure to roll under the lip. Tomorrow I sand. Should I look at putting an extra piece or two behind the gudgeon on the premise I could always sand out flat. Does anyone think I need to glass on the inside? My bro (restores old car) thinks that would be overkill?

I don't think there is such a thing as overkill for the transom. Those see a lot of stress, definitely put a metal plate on the inside to distribute the load!

Philip, just out of curiosity, what is the upwards pointing U-bracket on your tiller tie bar for?

That U-bracket is the old cross bar connector, now re-purposed as a hiking stick holder. I have them on my boat also, they work great.

The bolt used to go through the tiller arm and the U part was on the cross bar. If you twisted the bar some how the pivot point would not be horizontal and you could not turn. Murrays has the up grade part. The bolt on the old connector replaces one of the pins on the new connector.

Philip told me about this, I did not think it up my self. I don't know if Philip did.

http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MS&Product_Code=56-5516&Category_Code=

edited by: skarr1, Aug 25, 2010 - 06:36 PM

Edchris177 wrote: Philip, just out of curiosity, what is the upwards pointing U-bracket on your tiller tie bar for?

skarr1 wrote: . . . now re-purposed as a hiking stick holder. . .

BINGO!

As for the tie bar end upgrade, an absolute must. Don't bitch about the cost. It is the SECOND most dramatic and improved upgrade you can do to the Nacra, especially all that is connected aft of the transoms. Mine actually had a Prindle logo embossed on it. Wonder if others do ??

or for a $1 of stainless lockwire you can "tie" the 2 parts of the old system together to prevent the rotation and binding

Not a problem to change out the cleats. I have done it many times. Get rid of the plastic cleats and order the aluminum "clamcleat" brand. Add the fairlead and presto. The reason you want to use the alloy cleat is the plastic ones will get burned and grooved by the line friction, then they will not hold down well resulting in line slippage, and weather helm. Use the existing hole in the pivmatic that is closest to the fairlead, and drill a new rear hole for the other. That rivot is always under compression so it's not that technical, and a new hole next to an existing hole is a non-issue. It's easy to do and doesn't take long.

Yea, I wouldn't use the plastic ones...that just sounds all bad. I ordered the piv bracket with not cleat at all. I'm not opposed to drilling a hole (or hundreds) but the two types of cleats I had were both too close to the holes to add a hole and feel comfortable. I didn't think about buying a nicer cleat with a larger distance between holes..I figured that since I had to buy something else to finish it out I'd just buy the stock aluminum one that comes on the nacras.

Not sure if that's clear, but no worries, it'll all be fixed on Friday either way.

I plan to put the fairlead right behind the cleat (instead of on it) on the rudder arm so I can just pop the line up and it won't grab the cleat as the rudder comes up.

As for the tie bar end upgrade, an absolute must. Don't ***** about the cost. It is the SECOND most dramatic and improved upgrade you can do to the Nacra, especially all that is connected aft of the transoms. Mine actually had a Prindle logo embossed on it. Wonder if others do ??

Dude. Seriously.

You can't do that.

What's FIRST?

The first upgrade is to read

Thanks. I was going to order that part, as my cat was crap for tiller to tie bar when I got it. It turned out that was the only part from Murrays that I needed, & shipping to Canada is $30, so I made new brackets from 304 SS.
I know what you mean about about the U-joint locking up if in the wrong position. I took a tip from ERICE, & fixed mine with some aircraft SS lockwire, problem solved.
Do you use the holder when "parked", or other times when it is not extended?
I leave mine on the far side of the tramp when on the lift, or at my dock, to try & avoid having someone step on it. If the tiller is extended, it drags in the water when I turn, so sometimes when soloing in hairy conditions, (20 kts tonight)I just toss it straight back & use the tie bar to steer through the tacks, then pick it up again as I get things sorted out.

I use mine any time I want the hiking stick to stay put. Comes in handy when on the wire to set it down and straighten out the main sheet. When collapsed on the beach it keeps the stick in a protected location.

edited by: skarr1, Aug 25, 2010 - 08:25 PM

Hey Golfdad. I just got done with a complete re-do of my NACRA 5-2. In the process I had a conversation about the mounting of the gudgeons with Ron at Fastlane Sailing Center here in SD. When I was dis-assembling the rudder system I noticed that there were just regular washers on the inside of the bolts holding the gudgeons to the transoms which I thought seemed kind of weak. Ron brought up a good point that I think you need to consider. When you are attaching the gudgeons you want to make sure they are secure BUT...in the case of a failure not unlike the one you just experienced it is better for the bolts to pull through the transom and leave a hole as apposed to pulling the entire transom off along with part of the hull and sinking your boat. That being said, when I re-assembled my boat, I just used bolts with washers.

Hey Adam do you mean use flat washers and no backing plate? I have finished the glass job, drilled the holes and ready to install the gudgeon.

Yep. That's how mine is set up now.

I would have to think that one over. I would not want the rudder stress concentrated on a small washer and lock nut.But I am sure your guy has seen more than me. On mine the outline of the backing plate cracked the stern but didn't pull through. But again I wasn't going but about 5 knots. I am sure more damage could have resulted. I will break down and order pivmatics.