Referbing Hobie 18 Thread

goodsailing wrote: Just thought about this: you could run a screw driver through there, which would hold the boom in place... Never thought of that till this morning...

Somebody has to say it.. This hose clamp and square tube... they just don't belong there...
You know it works, test passed, you made your point.. Now it's time to solve it with elegance, don't forget that you are a honorable representative of the cat sailing community..

Somebody has to say it.. This hose clamp and square tube... they just don't belong there...
You know it works, test passed, you made your point.. Now it's time to solve it with elegance, don't forget that you are a honorable representative of the cat sailing community..

Well said. We've talked about simply drilling the hole. Would a hole belong there too. Or simply remove the device when not in use so to not offend any honorable rep or peer? We're talking about aesthetics now. I suppose prior to the advent of a boom, the boomless captains gazed a curious eye at that board hanging off the mast. Then as people used a boom as a part of the sail rig they became common, and elegant...

OK, I'll add powder coating, your choice of red, white, black or even silver to blend in etc.. and I'll throw in free shipping... this all in fun of course. get some retractable beech wheels in the hulls and then we'll be sailing 😆 Thanks for all your help thus far.

Andinista wrote:

QuoteThe spinnaker pole mount for a Hobie 18 is a gooseneck fitting.

It must rotate 90 degrees. From the pic I saw of that fitting, won't allow the movement needed.

Even if you could find the right piece, I wouldn't mount it on the beam, it would put a lot of stress on that connection when the boom is vertical.

H18 spinnaker pole mount (which is the H18 gooseneck mount) should work fine. What was shown in the earlier post is a Getaway spinnaker pole mount. The H18 mount is different and is rotated 90 degrees. Regarding stress on the fitting itself, we're only talking a couple hundred pounds here max. The fitting should be capable of handling that. The other advantage (in addition to removing that block of steel from the front of the mast) is that if you ever decided to install a spinnaker on your boat, you'd already have the mount in place.

Another thought would be to create a bracket that installs around the mast step and is held in place by the mast step pin. Then once the mast is up, the whole bracket is removed. That's probably the route I'd go and in fact, I would make a separate pole specifically for stepping the mast and forget about using the boom.

sm

H18 spinnaker pole mount (which is the H18 gooseneck mount) should work fine. What was shown in the earlier post is a Getaway spinnaker pole mount. The H18 mount is different and is rotated 90 degrees. Regarding stress on the fitting itself, we're only talking a couple hundred pounds here max. The fitting should be capable of handling that. The other advantage (in addition to removing that block of steel from the front of the mast) is that if you ever decided to install a spinnaker on your boat, you'd already have the mount in place.

Another thought would be to create a bracket that installs around the mast step and is held in place by the mast step pin. Then once the mast is up, the whole bracket is removed. That's probably the route I'd go and in fact, I would make a separate pole specifically for stepping the mast and forget about using the boom.

Good points especially adding spin later on. Good... , for the bracket you're talking about would be a 3 sided strip metal with holes for pin, same pin, screw driver, that holds the hinge and same hole I have here, to hold any pole, boom etc., That would rotate verticle above mast for pole installation. You could use just a piece of strip metal, bent twice in vice to form that piece, less work than cuting clamp slots as I've done with dremmel. Good thoughts. I'll make one up. The 3 separate blocks on the boom were cumbersome to deal with changing lines etc. That perhaps a couple of triples already rigged on separate pole would be easier, but adds to cost and more stuff to haul. Thanks for you inputs...

Here's the plug for the hole in the mast idea... something like this I had in mind if anyone wanted to go that route.

http://www.componentforce.com/category/504/silicone-cone-caps

Plastic might be better if it could be located..

I would make a separate pole specifically for stepping the mast and forget about using the boom.

Why! That was Goodsailing's best contribution in my opinion

The hole is an elegant solution to my standards. Even better with a plug (except for the color maybe). A well finished permanent fitting too. What about the Laser boomvang fitting on the boom side, that would work with a screw driver?. (Or a dedicated pin, even more elegant..)

Goodsailing, I'm not against innovation, testing weird ideas, thinking out of the box, etc. I was just suggesting a better finish!

Andinista wrote:

I would make a separate pole specifically for stepping the mast and forget about using the boom.

Why! That was Goodsailing's best contribution in my opinion

Using the boom is a nice idea if it can actually work in a simple, elegant manner. The problem is that it looks to me that it is proving to be more trouble than it's worth. Re-stringing the main sheet system each time with a longer hoisting sheet would be a PITA. Working around the existing gooseneck fitting may prove to be more cumbersome than worthwhile. Sometimes when you restrict yourself to using one piece of equipment, you end up placing a lot of limitations on what you can do. Yes, using the boom is nice from a minimalist point of view and getting two functions out of one piece of equipment, but if you can do the job better, faster, more easily, and more safely with a dedicated pole, than that is probably better. We're not talking about a lot of weight, space, or extra equipment to have a dedicated pole.

sm

I was just suggesting a better finish!

Ah gosh... jeesh, chop saw, drill press etc.. throw a bunch in the powder coating machine and you'd have many parts. They'd look OK. Or spray with Rusto paint before install. I would have done that but didn't have time... because I didn't know if it would work or not..

Re-stringing the main sheet system each time with a longer hoisting sheet would be a PITA.

Got that right, especially if you've not done it. You must keep close track as you thread it or you get lost not knowing which end you are feeding, then it's a clusterf especially with 80' of rope--Having triple on boom would have helped---. But it went pretty quick as I had some experience. Separate pole, and blocks would add to expense, for not a lot of time savings IMO. Longer to un-thread, than thread. Beside, money best spent on beech wheel parts now that gin pole is done. Thanks for your help guys..

I got a disguarded water pipe, just happened to the the length shown, stuck it in the oven at 300 until pliable (don't forget tin foil on the racks before setting them in) then ran them out when hot wearing welders gloves, threw the carpet on them and pressed them up underneath against the hulls, and whallah, hull cradles. The brackets will be the hard part,

Edited by goodsailing on Apr 09, 2015 - 04:45 PM.

Separate pole, and blocks would add to expense

Not to be critical but I am, looked at your photos and I see you have a winch on your trailer and saw the clusterf of a sheet going up to the pulleys...with the winch you DONT need any pulleys. As I said earlier you are overthinking it and making it more of a cluster than you need to Again, go back to the link for the ez step and study it and read the directions as there is no need for any pulleys and you could still use your boom for the gin pole . Sometimes it pointless to try and build a better mousetrap when there is already a 35 year old, simple and proven design. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

It probably seem like more over -thinking than there is really.

I'll try that, but hope the mast crutch that holds the crank won't break off. :-O There's a pic out there somewhere where that happened and where a plate was welded to the base for more support. The base on the crutch here is shakey. Also, when you stand up there to tension all the lines, there is no way you can crank the crank standing up on the tramp. My method has one hand on the boom to steady it, as there's slack in the line, and the other reeling in the sheet to add tension as I'm up there holding the boom. Could you adjust the crank line to a pre-determined length, marked by a sharpee prior to inserting it into the mast?... probably. But the crank is slooooooo. i did 5 or 6 pulls with the pulleys and the mast was up quick.
I'll give it a try and let you know how it went. Not having to thread pulleys, as mentioned as being a PITA, would be ideal including not having to carry a bundle of extra rope/line, whatever...Thanks.

NeubaurRL wrote: [ I see you have a winch on your trailer and saw the clusterf of a sheet going up to the pulleys...with the winch you DONT need any pulleys.

Agree. What is the logic of re-stringing the mainsheet and dealing with all that mess when you could simply use the trailer winch? A hand crank trailer winch has more than enough mechanical advantage to raise a Hobie mast.

sm

You will note on page 3 of the ez mast stepper manual there's a mast hinge comprised of straps which might add to stability of the gin pole holding it verticle. My case is a pin in a socket and there is no stability there, where tension on the lines holds the boom up. So, I'd have to get the boom vertical and with my hand on the winch line, add enough tension while moving down from the tramp towards the winch to get my hand on the crank to take up slack.... OK.. seems better than rigging boom with longer line. Worth trying... Thanks.

You will note on page 3 of the ez mast stepper manual there's a mast hinge comprised of straps which might add to stability of the gin pole holding it verticle. My case is a pin in a socket and there is no stability there, where tension on the lines holds the boom up

Quite honestly you are so intent your way is the best way your head is up your... Go ahead and put together your custerf@&$ and waiting to se your cat wheels (just my opinion from a cat sailor who has seen a lot in 40 years). I am thru even opening up this thread or your other until your head sees the light of the day.

Quite honestly you are so intent your way is the best way your head is up your... Go ahead and put together your custerf@&$ and waiting to se your cat wheels (just my opinion from a cat sailor who has seen a lot in 40 years). I am thru even opening up this thread or your other until your head sees the light of the day.

A tad harsh aren't you. I said I would use the winch not the blocks... OK we're done with getting the mast up... Thanks for your help.

Edited by goodsailing on Apr 09, 2015 - 06:45 PM.

You might check out these gin poles to see if there are any ideas you can incorporate in your pole:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=109328

I've designed several that used the trailer winch, all worked fine, just remember to keep the boat tied to the trailer while raising and lowering, or the boat will slide forward at some point, with unfortunate consequences!

Dave

You might check out these gin poles to see if there are any ideas you can incorporate in your pole:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=109328

I've designed several that used the trailer winch, all worked fine, just remember to keep the boat tied to the trailer while raising and lowering, or the boat will violently slide forward at some point, with unfortunate consequences!

Dave

Edited by davefarmer on Apr 10, 2015 - 11:20 AM.

Thanks Dave. I scoured this site and the web pretty good. At first, without thinking about using the boom, I built wooden pole from 2 x 4's but felt it too flimsy, plus I broke my hinge because I didn't have the guide wires set up right. I think now I have it dialed in pretty good. The next raising will include using the winch, as one advocated, in order not to have to thread the blocks etc. I actually got the idea for my little part from seeing a video that had a sunken hole in the mast for this purpose. Also, drilling a hole through the end cap as we discussed might gull the parts making it impossible to remove the end cap so... it's up to anyone where to drill if they just want to put a hole there. Good tip about keeping the boat tied down, especially after coming back, you'd might forget to do that...

One of the diamond wire rollers was broke when I bought the boat, and I busted the other one when raising the mast. Part #2 that I destroyed by accident. Cooler crushed it... So, since this is an older boat, with an older sail that might be replaced, do I really need those rollers anyway?

Just tape up the spreader ends and all the little cotter pins really well.

sm

Just tape up the spreader ends and all the little cotter pins really well.

Done. Tks!

So, since this is an older boat, with an older sail that might be replaced, do I really need those rollers anyway?

You substantially increase the chances of your spreaders poking a hole through your jib (during tack/gybe) without the rollers.
worth the investment - at the very least tape the snot out of the ends to reduce this risk

You substantially increase the chances of your spreaders poking a hole through your jib (during tack/gybe) without the rollers.

+1
If you sail a lot you will find those ends will wear on the jib.
You can buy rollers that snap on to the diamond wires, they are far cheaper than even a single repair to the jib, & once you buy a new(used) jib, you are going to have to buy them anyway.
Use a small zip tie, or wrap of tape just above them, so they don't get stuck near the top when you flip.
http://www.sailcare.com/sailsaver.shtml

Edited by Edchris177 on Apr 11, 2015 - 09:11 AM.

The rollers have been broken off my boat for years. I just taped the spreader ends up really well and my jib has been fine other than some minor black marks from the electrical tape I used rubbing off on the sail.

sm

some minor black marks from the electrical tape I used rubbing off on the sail.

I use the colored electrical tape, comes in red, green, white & yellow. It does not have that gooey adhesive that the black stuff seems to leave. Not quite as durable as real rigging tape, but for 75 cents a roll at Princess Auto, I'll use it for taping all ring dings etc.

Hi, I got the sail up today and it went up a lot easier than expected.
1. I move the blocks for the side tensioners further aft and made them dimetrically opposed for maximum pulling on the tramp wires to keep the mast lined up while it is stepped with the winch.
2. The crank is a pain as it did get away from me and hit my arm..which stopped it from falling... Careful now.
3. The sail did rest on the wires, there was light wind, beautiful day here. I have them taped. Will probably buy diamond wire rollers should I get new sails.. good for now..
4. There's got to be an easier way to pin pins. Those wire do hickys suck. Having to spread the coil to start it through the hole while your holding the roller furler up is clugy. Having tension on the winch made this a lot easier. I couldn't imagine not using some tension on the forestay to pin it properly.
5. I practiced pulling the jib sheet and the pulley lips got caught on the my bungee triangle so I remove the bungee and it fed better. At first I thought the mast gooseneck holder would get in the way of the jib sheet but was not a factor. I'll look into pig tails, if anyone can point me to how to rig that I'd appreciate it.
6. I adjust the tramp tensioners
7. The sail went up and hooked with no problem, after I took off that flapper (thanks Dogboy. The only thing is some of the keepers for battons (mast side) are missing. Not sure what is needed there. Need to look closer at it. String perhaps.
8. I strung new jib down haul line to the eye in the wire that takes up the sail. Not sure of terminology there. Roller fuller works good.
9. I added bungees to the ropes on the dagger boards.
10. Traveler appears working normally...

Nothing left but waiting for beech wheel parts. Should be here this week.
Thanks for all you help thus far..

4. There's got to be an easier way to pin pins. Those wire do hickys suck. Having to spread the coil to start it through the hole while your holding the roller furler up is clugy. Having tension on the winch made this a lot easier. I couldn't imagine not using some tension on the forestay to pin it properly.

ringdings can be hard to put on, but they stay on .... good fingernails are essential and as everything here .. it's all about technique
there are "cheater" rings that are easier but they can also get fouled with line much easier - (top rings in image below)

TAPE UP ALL CRITICAL RINGS so they can't get fouled and pulled

I strung new jib down haul line to the eye in the wire that takes up the sail. Not sure of terminology there. Roller fuller works good.

"strings" that pull up sails are always called halyards

a better way / place to tie your downhaul PROBABLY is:
tie downhaul line to the furler ring
loop line through tack of jib (front bottom)
run back through furler ring (now a 2:1 purchase)
and repeat till you have a 3 or 4:1 and secure with a rolling hitch or knot of choice

2. The crank is a pain as it did get away from me and hit my arm..which stopped it from falling... Careful now.

There should be a switch on the winch to turn on the ratchet so it can not free-wheel.

Having to spread the coil to start it through the hole while your holding the roller furler up is clugy. Having tension on the winch made this a lot easier. I couldn't imagine not using some tension on the forestay to pin it properly.

Connecting the forestay to the furler adjuster takes three hands - one to hold up the furler, one to hold the forestay fork aligned with the adjuster, and one to install the clevis pin. A much easier way to connect the forestay on the 18 is to connect the forestay to the furler adjuster before hoisting the mast (bridle wires disconnected from the bow tangs). When the mast is up, install the pins for the bridle wires/bow tangs - this only takes two hands.

This is also better for the bridle wires. If you connect the bridle wires to the bow tangs and let the furler hang down, you will see that the bridle wires want to kink out at the swage fittings for the bow tangs - not good for the wires. When we travel, the bridle wires/furler are completely disconnected from the boat and stored in the trailer box.

sm