Catamaran News

Classified Ads

Forums

Calendar

Contact Us

TheBeachcats.com Logo
Newbie - Did I wast...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Newbie - Did I waste $1700? Mast kink on Mystere 6.0

72 Posts
13 Users
0 Reactions
6,708 Views
(@boatbore)
Posts: 78
Lubber
 

You can get a camera on a selfie stick in there and take a ton of pics or video - before you go nuts to get the entire lid off (creating a ton of work) are you sure it is needed?

Yep, absolutely do this, look extra close at the daggerboard trunk and bulkheads. But don't glue the cap down until you're sure there's nothing more you ever want to do inside the hull ever again.
The previous owner started a repair but never finished it. Why? Did he decide removing the deck was too much trouble or did he do the repairs and just not glue the deck down. A mysterey. 😆
Removing the deck is not fun, you need the thickest putty knife/scrapper with a slab tang you can find, sharpened to a chisel edge, a hammer, determination, and patience. The hardest part is the beginning and that's done.
It's a 25 year old boat you can assume was ridden hard and put away wet. How are you going to use it? On the ocean or a little inland lake where you can swim to shore if it disappears from underneath you.
And what's up with that mast?

The Bore

 
Posted : September 28, 2021 2:43 pm
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

The previous owner started a repair but never finished it. Why? Did he decide removing the deck was too much trouble or did he do the repairs and just not glue the deck down. A mysterey

It looks like he tried to do some repair around the daggerboard trunk but the bulkheads don't appear to have been touched. I'm pretty sure the original owner had no ideas what he was doing because there is a lot of sloppy work. I'm sure it was functional but I really don't trust it.

[quote=boatbore]

Removing the deck is not fun, you need the thickest putty knife/scrapper with a slab tang you can find, sharpened to a chisel edge, a hammer, determination, and patience. The hardest part is the beginning and that's done.
It's a 25 year old boat you can assume was ridden hard and put away wet. How are you going to use it? On the ocean or a little inland lake where you can swim to shore if it disappears from underneath you.
The Bore

My biggest worry is breaking the deck panel or the "shelf" it sits on trying to get the panel off. I have no problem doing the work needed. My fear is making it worse and doing something that is prohibitively expensive to repair or is unfixable and having to scrap the whole project for lack of skill and expertise.

And what's up with that mast?

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast. I have an uncle I was talking to who is a captain and an experience sailor who was optimistic an experienced rigger could help sort it out so I have been looking for someone but Atlanta (where I am) doesn't have a very robust sailing community so finding experts nearby who could help are few and far between. I have reached out to my local yacht clubs but no one has responded.

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 7:45 am
Edward Hilliard
(@Edchris177)
Posts: 2531
Captain
 

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

This is not rocket science, or a job for a rigger.
You either undo the tension adjustment at the bottom, or undo the spreader bars. I can’t remember how mine tensioned, but it’s usually a sharp awl through a hole in the turnbuckle, in combination with an open end wrench to turn it.
If that fails, remove all the crap from where the spreaders are attached to the mast. Remove the cotter pins. Sit down, put your feet against the mast, & pull, (one hand on each side of the spreader). It doesn’t take much force. This will bow the mast a bit, & release tension on the pins. Have a helper push the pins out, the spreader bars will now come off.
Once one spreader is off, the other will have no tension, & can be easily removed.
I do this each year with the N5.7 & H18 masts as they won’t go through the basement window for storage with the spreaders attached. The N5.7 & the Dart mast fit through.
The mast can now be examined at its natural state.
Reassembly is the opposite.it takes only a few minutes, then re-take the ring dings, & tension using a Loos gauge.

E C Hilliard

Nacra 5.7
Bombardier Invitation

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 8:26 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

Edchris177 wrote:
This is not rocket science, or a job for a rigger.

yeah, the hardware is just stuck and stubborn so I'm trying to be careful and use plenty of WD-40

My uncle was more refering to a rigger could get the mast I have straightened up

Edited by jgregs on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:57 PM.

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 8:41 am
Edward Hilliard
(@Edchris177)
Posts: 2531
Captain
 

The fittings are not a really tight tolerance. If the pins are a bit corroded, just have buddy tap a pin punch on them while you pull.
Another option is to undo the spreader at the pointy end. It consists of a small triangle with 3 pins. You only need to remove one of them.
Your photos don’t look like the mast is unusable, no sharp kinks evident, but photos often don’t show the complete story. Tip the mast on edge & sight down the sail track. Gentle bends can be fixed.

Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:22 PM.

E C Hilliard

Nacra 5.7
Bombardier Invitation

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 9:18 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

Edchris177 wrote: . . . no sharp kinks evident, but photos often don’t show the complete story. Tip the mast on edge & sight down the sail track. Gentle bends can be fixed.Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:22 PM.

Thats good to hear and very much were we are. I'm learning there is a big difference between and kink and bend and I'm glad to say I believe we are dealing with the latter.

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 9:30 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 

It looks like he tried to do some repair around the daggerboard trunk but the bulkheads don't appear to have been touched. I'm pretty sure the original owner had no ideas what he was doing because there is a lot of sloppy work. I'm sure it was functional but I really don't trust it.

mysteres are known for some leaks in the dagger board wells - its harder to work in there too

My biggest worry is breaking the deck panel or the "shelf" it sits on trying to get the panel off. I have no problem doing the work needed. My fear is making it worse and doing something that is prohibitively expensive to repair or is unfixable and having to scrap the whole project for lack of skill and expertise.

yup i mutilated spots of mine - it was ugly and my deck are no wheres neat show room condition after the surgery but i have 1 pretty boat (the 6.0) and one that i have sailed 3000 times and it shows

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast. I have an uncle I was talking to who is a captain and an experience sailor who was optimistic an experienced rigger could help sort it out so I have been looking for someone but Atlanta (where I am)

wd40 is not gonna do anything on stuck fittings on these boats - you need Blaster if there is any corrosion involved

More PICTURES PLEASE

MN3

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 10:08 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

Does yours diamond wire/mast area look like mine?
is that what is stuck?
top left on image (the center barrel that has nuts on the top and bottom)

Edited by MN3 on Sep 29, 2021 - 04:14 PM.

MN3

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 10:13 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

MN3 wrote:

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

Does yours diamond wire/mast area look like mine?
is that what is stuck?
top left on image (the center barrel that has nuts on the top and bottom)

Yup. Looks like the similar hardware. Where it anchors it isn't a nut but instead is a aluminum cylinder with a threaded hole (like that pictured below)

Its the barrel that doesn't want to move. When I try to twist that, it twists the entire wire so I'm going to support it as best as I can and put some more muscle behind it.

Edited by jgregs on Sep 29, 2021 - 05:57 PM.

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 10:54 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 

I'm going to support it as best as I can and put some more muscle behind it.

where the wire connects to the threads, there should be a flat spot - you put a vice grip on it there, one above and one below). Someone else (since you need to hold both) will then put a small allen wrench (or similar sized punch) in the hole in the middle of the barrel for leverage OR you use vice grips but it will scar the crap out of it and i don't think i have ever had much success that way.

you should soak everything over night with blaster or some other enzyme product that will help free up frozen hardware

and post pics of YOUR setup please (we know its a pita)

MN3

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 11:12 am
Edward Hilliard
(@Edchris177)
Posts: 2531
Captain
 

I think mine had the same setup as you are describing. The threaded rod does not have to turn in the barrel it’s anchored into.
Undo both top & bottom nuts. (They will turn opposite way to loosen). Then hold the “flat spot” Andrew alluded to, I use a crescent wrench, & turn only the barrel, via a thin pin punch in the barrel hole.
We used an awl a few times, but twist it firmly in, & be aware they can break.
Heat the barrel with a propane torch, just enough so the heat load doesn’t fully transfer into the threaded part of the wire.
If all fails, (you should probably source new standing rigging anyway), cut them off
Thus photo is from an album I made showing the complex line rigging for the jib, but you can see the Diamond wire anchors.
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=109070&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

E C Hilliard

Nacra 5.7
Bombardier Invitation

 
Posted : September 29, 2021 4:47 pm
(@boatbore)
Posts: 78
Lubber
 

My biggest worry is breaking the deck panel or the "shelf" it sits on trying to get the panel of

Looking at your photo of the half removed panel, I see what looks like chips from the tool the po used to open the deck as far as he thought necessary to do the repairs. He did some patching, got discouraged with the results and abandoned the project. Time passes and he’s lost all interest in the boat and puts it up for sale.
Now it's your project. You have to decide if you can do the repairs with the access you have or do you need more room to do it right. The hardest part of getting the deck off is the first couple inches. He did that with very little damage to the panel. It can be done. Sharpen up a scrapper and give it a try. If you damage the hull side it's easy to reinforce it from the inside with some fiberglass and resin, the deck is a little harder to repair. It's very important that the scrapper you use is sharp. Knife edge, not blunt.

wd40 is not gonna do anything on stuck fittings on these boats - you need Blaster if there is any corrosion involved

Word! Get pb blaster, kroil, or automatic transmission fluid and acetone mixed together and hit every fastener on the boat, repeatedly. When reassembling coat mated surfaces with lanocote or tefgel.

 
Posted : September 30, 2021 10:23 am
(@boatbore)
Posts: 78
Lubber
 

Heat the barrel with a propane torch, just enough so the heat load doesn’t fully transfer into the threaded part of the wire.
If all fails, (you should probably source new standing rigging anyway), cut them off

Yeah you need all new standing rigging if you haven't heard yet. Say hello to Murray's for me.

 
Posted : September 30, 2021 10:30 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

boatbore wrote: Yeah you need all new standing rigging if you haven't heard yet. Say hello to Murray's for me.

Murray's doesn't have premade rigging for a Mystere 6.0 but if I measure what I have, I assume they can remake it? The shroads appear in pretty good shape. Should I replace these for good measure anyways?

I was able to get it off and take a look at the bare mast. The bend is still there but when we put it up on to some table gravity brought the mast back to straight so it should be fixable right?

There are two things I'm trying to figure out in the hulls. I have gone around with a spackle knife, hammer, and razor blade to get the panel off but I can't get the panel off past this point. It seems to be glued down or fastened around the centerboard cutout. I have gotten the knife under the edge almost everywhere else but this is as far as I can take it off.

Lastly, as I have been looking in the front of the starboard hull, I can see some light coming through the base so this will HAVE to get patched. I assume fiberglass to reenfore the weak areas and cover any hole is the right proceedure here? Should I also look at re-covering the outside with gel coat or filler? You can't see the gaps in this shot but I wanted to show the space I will need to work in.

 
Posted : October 1, 2021 5:10 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 

Murray's doesn't have premade rigging for a Mystere 6.0 but if I measure what I have, I assume they can remake it?

YES

The shroads appear in pretty good shape. Should I replace these for good measure anyways?

you should replace all old standing rigging diamond wires, side stays. bridal wires and forestay or find a local rigger, there are lots of options here.

I was able to get it off and take a look at the bare mast. The bend is still there but when we put it up on to some table gravity brought the mast back to straight so it should be fixable right?

This looks bad to me, you have a bend and a twist. Where are you located? If this was me, I would have a professional rigger do a marine inspection on it. If that isn't an option, have your uncle evaluate. IF just a little weight in one spot corrects everything - you have nothing to do = you will have 100's and 100's of lbs of rigging tention as soon as you rig it and sheet in. that will auto fix a small bend - as i said - it looks worser than that to me but your pics are pretty hard to see a kink 20' away in low res pics and i am not a professional marine inspector

There are two things I'm trying to figure out in the hulls. I have gone around with a spackle knife, hammer, and razor blade to get the panel off but I can't get the panel off past this point. It seems to be glued down or fastened around the centerboard cutout. I have gotten the knife under the edge almost everywhere else but this is as far as I can take it off.

Lastly, as I have been looking in the front of the starboard hull, I can see some light coming through the base so this will HAVE to get patched. I assume fiberglass to reenfore the weak areas and cover any hole is the right proceedure here? Should I also look at re-covering the outside with gel coat or filler? You can't see the gaps in this shot but I wanted to show the space I will need to work in.

Some light is not a big deal, there are thin areas
IF they are worn down, through the gel-coat into any fiber - yup need to fix that.

you need to do some research here
i highly recommend the west marine video tutorials for an understanding of what a fiberglass/ epoxy work is gonna take

others will chime in too i am sure

Edited by MN3 on Oct 01, 2021 - 01:37 PM.

MN3

 
Posted : October 1, 2021 7:34 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

IF just a little weight in one spot corrects everything - you have nothing to do = you will have 100's and 100's of lbs of rigging tention as soon as you rig it and sheet in.

Does "nothing to do" mean good to go or "nothing to do" as in there is nothing I can do about it and it is trash?

Edited by jgregs on Oct 01, 2021 - 02:49 PM.

 
Posted : October 1, 2021 7:45 am
(@waiex191)
Posts: 359
Mate
 

jgregs wrote:
Does "nothing to do" mean good to go or "nothing to do" as in there is nothing I can do about it and it is trash?

I read that as you are good to go. The force to straighten it is roughly zero, the forces on the rigging will be large. But, I can also read MN3's reply as doom and gloom.

My only sailboat work has been on our H16. So I'm not a rigger. I've done a lot of work with aluminum on aircraft. From what I can see, and if it was my boat, I'd probably try and tweak it straight and true with the wires off.

I did replace the mast on my H16. Not because I had to, but because I bought a parts boat for hulls. It had a better mast hound, no cracks for the stepping hinge, and later I found out the halyard sheave was much better. So that is always an option too - look for a mast.

 
Posted : October 1, 2021 8:36 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 

a little bend in a mast, not under load MAY be fine under load. when everything is sheeted tight and the mast has force on it, it doesnt impact the integrity and would cost time and money to "chase" making it look straight on land

IF a bend, kink, twist, corrosion, or other is in a location or with a level of severity that compromises the mast under-load, you need professional help. Hopefully you can find a marine welder/fabricator/rigger to do any

the cost of the work could quickly pass the value of a replacement mast (est $1000 to source a new/used mast give or take)

Edited by MN3 on Oct 02, 2021 - 10:25 AM.

MN3

 
Posted : October 1, 2021 8:41 am
MN3
 MN3
(@MN3)
Posts: 7090
One Star Admiral
 


been thinking about this pic

I see an issue - you are missing all your bulkheads

you should see a bulkhead about 2' forward of the deck port and there should be a horizontal one too creating an inclosed box under that deck port. there is another bulkhead missing forward of that too - I can see where it used to be

if you recall i mentioned earlier that it's a known issue for the bulkheads to fail - my 5.5 forward bulkheads were fractured and looked like they were hit by lightning. Lots of flex and torque going on in these hulls

if you get the deck lids off - it's not that hard of a fix assuming time, money and skills are available

You can see the 2 bulkheads in this pic of my 5.5 (note the 5.5 does not come with the horizontal bulkhead)

If I am correct, these are the bulkheads you may need to recreate - this is when i was adding horizontal bulkheads to add extra stiffness to my 5.5 since i was in there replacing bow tangs

Edited by MN3 on Oct 02, 2021 - 10:39 AM.

MN3

 
Posted : October 2, 2021 4:17 am
(@boatbore)
Posts: 78
Lubber
 

you need to do some research here
i highly recommend the west marine video tutorials for an understanding of what a fiberglass/ epoxy work is gonna take

I think you might have meant west systems, not west marine. https://www.westsystem.com/instruction-manuals/

 
Posted : October 2, 2021 8:41 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

you should see a bulkhead about 2' forward of the deck port and there should be a horizontal one too creating an inclosed box under that deck port. there is another bulkhead missing forward of that too - I can see where it used to be

yup. the bulk head fell down as I was getting the panel off. and the picture was taken just in front of the second one. I bought some fiberglass and resin which I will use to reenforce and attach them.

 
Posted : October 3, 2021 2:07 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

So I have gotten the entire deck up EXCEPT right where it connects to the front of the Centerboard well. Looks like the PO put a bunch of glue in beneath where the top panel wraps down into the opening. I can't get a scraper or chisel down there. Any suggestions for getting that up? My first thought was try and use a long bar and come up from the bottom but I haven't tried it yet.

I was talking to someone and they said to just cut the thing with a dremel and repair the fiberglass which seemed extreme but is a better alternative than missing something and having the hull fill with water.

 
Posted : October 7, 2021 6:31 am
tominpa
(@tominpa)
Posts: 624
Chief
 

We don't know what kind of adhesive was used, however Marine Debond formula will go through very tough adhesives like 3M-5200 with time. It won't dissolve epoxy or resin bonds. It might be worth spraying it into the adhesive and see if it softens.

 
Posted : October 7, 2021 5:04 pm
(@boatbore)
Posts: 78
Lubber
 

Look closely at mn3's photo of his boat with the deck off. It looks like there's a big wad of resin at the place I think you're talking about. I think you've arrived at the hardest part where you're most likely to break the deck. I like your idea of a long bar (sharpened of course) coming up from the bottom. You have to make your own tools and try to make the cut where the glue meets the inner surface, that's its weakest point. It's easier to reinforce inside the hull than repair the deck.

 
Posted : October 7, 2021 7:51 pm
(@renospec)
Posts: 2
Newby
 

Your mast bend to totally fixable....I have straightened the mast thru leverage with fixed points and bending slowwwwlyyy...! Then get another small section of mast that fits your profile...cut small section ...then rivet it on top of the bend....it works...
Did this on my 24 ft seawind...after rigger said it was not fixable...!

 
Posted : October 14, 2021 5:51 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

Thanks for all of the input. I'm trying not to get overwhelmed with repairs at the moment but instead do one small project at a time. At the moment, I'm trying to focus on the hulls since those can't be replaced. Where I am currently is:

1) Still struggling to get the starboard top panel off around the centerboard housing.
2) There are several small cracks and hole on the bottom of the hull which was was going to repair with Bondo Fiber on the outside to fill the hole and add a layer of new fiberglass to the bottom to reenforce and ensure a good seal.
3) Refasten the bulkheads which have fallen down.

 
Posted : October 21, 2021 7:01 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

SUCCESS!!!! After multiple sessions just trying to get that panel off success is mine! I was able to get it off and inspect the hull. GOOD NEWS! Everything appears to be waterfast. No holes, punctures, or anything that would let water in (that I saw). Some of the bulk heads have to get fixed since they are being help up by a hope and prayer but thats easy enough.

What I'm curious about is some places that seemed "thin". They have no give or flex but the light I shown underneath them was visible (on the bottom of the hull). I was thinking I will put a layer of fiberglass on the inside to add thickness but then sand and use fiberglass filler (Bondo Glass) to smooth out some patchy repairs the original owner did on the outside.

Thoughts on this approach? Or would it be better to let sleeping dogs lie? It is sealed and waterfast to the best of my knowledge

 
Posted : October 21, 2021 2:06 pm
(@texastuma)
Posts: 415
Mate
 

jgregs wrote: SUCCESS!!!! After multiple sessions just trying to get that panel off success is mine! I was able to get it off and inspect the hull. GOOD NEWS! Everything appears to be waterfast. No holes, punctures, or anything that would let water in (that I saw). Some of the bulk heads have to get fixed since they are being help up by a hope and prayer but thats easy enough.

What I'm curious about is some places that seemed "thin". They have no give or flex but the light I shown underneath them was visible (on the bottom of the hull). I was thinking I will put a layer of fiberglass on the inside to add thickness but then sand and use fiberglass filler (Bondo Glass) to smooth out some patchy repairs the original owner did on the outside.

Thoughts on this approach? Or would it be better to let sleeping dogs lie? It is sealed and waterfast to the best of my knowledge

great job. I would be more concerned about areas between the bulkheads/stringers and the hull. Look for any cracking or separating. Remember, the hull without gelcoat is translucent. If the gelcoat has worn off, you will see "daylight" and be perfectly fine. Take a look at the outside and see if there are layers worn down. You can easily add a layer of glass or two if there is a concern. Lay it up, sand, paint/gelocat, and sail. keep it simple.

 
Posted : October 22, 2021 3:59 am
(@jgregs)
Posts: 70
Lubber
Topic starter
 

texastuma wrote:
great job. I would be more concerned about areas between the bulkheads/stringers and the hull. Look for any cracking or separating.

Nothing like that around the centerboard slot or the bulk heads. The bulkheads are loose so I'm going to resecure those.

There are some deep scratches on the bottom of the hull that I believe can be filled with fiberglass filler and sanded down.

 
Posted : October 22, 2021 4:42 am
Edward Hilliard
(@Edchris177)
Posts: 2531
Captain
 

What I'm curious about is some places that seemed "thin". They have no give or flex but the light I shown underneath them was visible (on the bottom of the hull)

My H18 shows light through the very bottom, & it has no wear.
If you do decide to add a strip, go to Johnstown Distributers, or any fibreglass supply place & buy a roll of 2” tape.
It has formed edges, so you can lay it down just like masking tape, and not have hairs & uneven edges. It’s really easy to do on the inside, just thinly paint some epoxy along the bottom, (dried & wiped with acetone), then thinly wet out the tape. You can loop it, like drywall tape, put it inside the hull, stretch it out, then “paint” along its length to push it onto the hull & remove any bubbles.
You don’t have to worry about drips & runs, & no sanding or finishing is required.

Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 22, 2021 - 10:01 PM.

E C Hilliard

Nacra 5.7
Bombardier Invitation

 
Posted : October 22, 2021 3:54 pm
Page 2 / 3