mast float install on a Prindle

It can be done and is very simple to do. You will need an old 10 hole shroud adjuster. Line up the adjuster with the 2 mast head sheaves and cut it so there is enough length to go from the front hole to the back. Then cut it to length so you will have 2 pieces. File the cut ends to get rid of any sharp edges. Then line up the float bracket and the 2 pieces with the mast head sheaves, remove the clevis pins and put it all together. The mast float bracket will only line up with the front sheave and you will need to add another clevis pin to the rear hole in the bracket. The adjuster will line up with the front and back holes of the mast head. The float bracket rear hole will fall some where in the middle of the holes of the adjuster that you cut. It is really quite simple and should take less than 30 minutes. Let us know how you make out. If you have any questions just post them here and I will answer them.

I have a baby bob if your interested. $70 shipped to 48 states. PM me if your interested

will a baby bob work for a prindle 19?

I just drilled extra hole in mast casting to just miss sheaves. Works great and boat is still fast enough to win local races. Pete

will a baby bob work for a prindle 19?

that is the question

edited by: Kevin219, Aug 31, 2010 - 10:49 PM

I'm OK with putting it on, but will it support the weight(physics) of a capsized prindle 19? I solo mostly and locating and installing the right mast float is my winter project.

all insights appreciated.

-j

jnesbitt wrote: I'm OK with putting it on, but will it support the weight(physics) of a capsized prindle 19? I solo mostly and locating and installing the right mast float is my winter project.

all insights appreciated.

-j

Some float may be better than no float but why not just seal the mast with some marine silicone sealant?

good question. The mast is sealed, but i thought that a sealed mast is not sufficient in the prevention of turtling. am i wrong?

Depends how well the mast is sealed. On my boat with a sealed mast and baby bob it floats no problem. P19

Some guys have reasons for installing a float, others don't. I find that on my N5.7 with a well sealed mast, even with two people hanging onto the mast after a capsize, it doesn't want to turn fully turtle,(they have to let go after the mast goes under). I stuck it in the mud twice, at about a 70* angle, but having everyone move from bow to stern on the hulls freed it.
Once I get bodies off the mast & out of the rigging my mast comes back up so that only the hound upwards is still in the water.
Clean all fittings except for the mast base(to allow any water that does get in to drain), rivets etc with alcohol, then apply marine silicone sealant. Then tip your boat over in controlled conditions & see how it ends up. Grab onto the mast near the tramp to drive it under, then let go & see if it comes up. Try it again with an empty water bottle, small & medium milk jug tied on. If you decide you need/want more flotation, remember, the tip of the mast provides quite a bit of leverage, it will not take much of an additional float to keep it up once you get the deadweight out of the rigging. I experimented with a 1 litre (quart) water bottle duct taped to the mast but decided it was not necessary on my boat.

edited by: Edchris177, Sep 05, 2010 - 12:07 PM

I capsized for the first time when i was soloing this weekend and had ample opportunity to observe my P19 in a state of 'sideways'.

context: I weigh 220 and the wind was pushing 25k.

B/c the mast is sealed it stayed reasonably close to the surface, however, not enough that i was able to right the boat with my righting line and me leaning way out.

that said, at no point did i feel like the P19 was going to turtle.

I am going to take Edchris177's advice and test and if necessary reseal the mast.

i am also going to purchase the larger hobie mast float as it can only help. additionally, i am considering a righting pole.

Thanks for advice.

If you didn't turtle, and you didn't think you would... why get a float?

a float isn't going to make it easier to right the cat.. just prevent it from turtle (right?)

It is my understanding that it will actually add weight, and make it harder to right it with the added weight.

Were you bows into the wind?
where you anchored?
was your boom uncleated
was your jib centered?

these are all the steps i need to do when righting.. and its alot to remember and get all set.. esp for the first dozen times.

if all those things weren't in place, then you don't know you cant right it solo (ps big air usually helps if you have the boat set up right ... but will hinder in the wrong setup

I think a righting bag is the way to go.... but have never tried a pole. they look nice, but i dont want the weight, hardware and i don't think they will give me the added leverage i need solo... so i carry 2 bags (i have a fat cat)

edited by: andrewscott, Sep 07, 2010 - 04:47 PM

Bows were into the wind -
i was not anchored
boom was uncleated
didn't do anything with the jib.

maybe a B- for effort.

the righting bags sound good. but with your body weight and two righting bags how long can you hang onto the righting line? Can i assume that when all the other items are managed your time leaning out is short?

re: mast float good for anti-turtle but no bearing on righting cat: i was kinda thinking that the larger float would lift the mast up just enough to get some wind under the sail and break sail/water surface tension. in retrospect this probably is not going to happen unless i go with a really big float.

i'm rethinking float and preparing for more testing.

This works on my 5.8 I only weigh about 180 and can right the boat by my self when it is windy. Have not tried it with out wind. http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-12032-start-0.html

the design makes wonderful sense. I wonder what a carbon fiber pole would cost?

$299.00 http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=13-4101&Category_Code=C-RI&Store_Code=MS

I have also know of people using windsurfer carbon mast and universal joints. My aluminum conduit has been on there for about 10 years and still looks OK. I tried a piece of 2 inch PVC pipe but it was not strong enough.

the righting bags sound good. but with your body weight and two righting bags how long can you hang onto the righting line? Can i assume that when all the other items are managed your time leaning out is short?

I have yet to try it with the 2 bags, but have done single bag about 6 times. i am certain another bag will not be a problem...

both bags will be on a single block system. when the bags are full you simply raise them from the water... get in front of them.. and use your shoulders to push out on them. they are attached to the righting line so its just a matter of pushing the line out as much as you can with your legs, and use your body weight ...

You shouldn't need a float to get the mast where the wind can get under it. If sealed only about 6' of the mast/sail are in the water. The rest of the sail, & almost all of the jib should be out.
With the bows into, or better yet 45* to the wind, this will get wind under & lifting the sail.
You are correct that you only need to get the tip of the mast a few inches out of the water & it comes right up.
Often the top of the main will be slightly underwater, if you are heavy enough to lift the water on the sail, you are not strong enough to hold yourself fully horizontal a few inches off the water. Just hike fully horizontal & hang there for a few seconds. If the main is uncleated & free, the upwards pull will drain the water. As the water drains it will come further up, then the wind will catch it, & literally a couple seconds more & you are reaching for the V brace bar.
I righted my 5.7 solo in 20 mph (I'm only 170 lb)with the jib cleated.
It caught wind & helped lift right away, but in hindsight this might not be a great idea, because as soon as it rights you better have a good grip & be able to pull yourself aboard as it may start sailing.
Other times I used a partial bag, sitting it on my chest, or as Andrew stated let the bag hang clear of the water, then get the line ovewr your shoulder & push out.

No bob, make sure the mast is sealed like Geoff intended. Get a buddy, or carry a radio. Righting bags are good too.

In case it's not clear, the righting bag is attached to the righting line. You are just pushing the bag away from the boat to right. I have also tied a loop in the righting line that I hook my trap harness on to.

i was mostly thinking that no matter how it's attached one is still in the position of holding it and self out from the hull in an effort to counter-weight.

but all sounds good.

-j

I think what SKARR is trying to say is that yes, you do have to support your body weight in the horizontal position, BUT you are not holding the weight of the bag. The bag is secured to the righting line, & while you do exert some effort to push it outwards, the effort required is only a fraction of the bag weight.
Think of a 200 lb weight hanging from a line attached to the ceiling, the bag is hanging against a wall, 6" from the floor.
I could not lift that bag up, but I could step between the bag & the wall, brace my feet against the wall & push out. With the line over my shoulder, I could easily push the bag 4' or more from the wall.
If you calculated a resolution of vectors, you would see that the greater the distance you push the bag, the more of its mass you are holding up. Eventually, if you pushed the bag outwards a distance that equals the length of the line, you would be supporting the entire 200 lbs, but the initial couple of feet is very little effort.

jnesbitt- I purchased a P19MX #247 86' in Jan-2010 my first cat, I only sail solo. I practiced capsizes weekends all may here 41.630809,-71.227241 in RI. I weigh 170+15 for wetsuit and vest. On days less than 10k It is not going to happen with out a bag. I use Murray's large bag and tackle. But when it is really fresh it comes up real easy just me the line and the bows into the wind. With more practice, I may not need the bag and put on the classifieds.

Always wear your vest.

Edited by johno3300 on Jan 04, 2011 - 02:24 PM.

you've inspired me to practice capsizing. and to get a bag. The more i reviewed the comments on this thread I'm more convinced that a float isn't the right solution, a pole may be overkill, and that knowledge and practice (along with a vest) are the best things i can take out with me.

thanks all.

Getting the mast higher in the water will help quite a bit and you don't need much volume to do it. If you want to try out a mast float the easiest thing is to do is tie a a couple 4 L (gallon) milk jugs to the Main Sail headboard (metal bit on the top of the sail. That will work as well as a hobie bob. is super cheap but looks like crap.

Other things to take note of when righting.

#1 make sure the righting line is going OVER the top hull, not under and it should be in line with the front beam. This gives you the most leverage and puts you in line with the center of gravity of the boat.

#2 Don't just unceat your main and jib, uncleat them and pull the blocks out so they are completely loose. That way the sail will hang down in the water and you won't have to lift all that water weight.

#3 If you have flipped it an the sails are all the way under water instead of pointing the bows directly into the wind, point them 45 degrees to the wind. That way the wind will push against your tramp and give you some extra force. Word of caution though, when she comes up, jump to the dolphinstriker and hang on. The momentum and the wind will try and take you over the other way, you have to hold the boat down to prevent this, normally the upwind hull will lift up a couple of inches and come down, sometimes it will come up a couple of feet.

The bag is probably the most proven method of righting the boat. At 170 lbs and with a prindle 19, you will probably need one. Hardest part is retrieving the thing once you are righted. If you are 220 lbs and have a fairly light boat (like me) you probably don't need one. Righting my cat is the only advantage I have found to getting old and fat.

D.

if you have you mast sealed good on top(not bottom,leave unsealed to let water out), it works fine...swim those bows into the wind, this will keep the wind from blowing on the underside of the tramp and pushing the mast head underwater further.

after getting a good technique now practice even harder on not flipping...you don't have to flip the boat if you don't want to. you can still have all the hull flying fun you want but when you get a good feel for the boat, you can totaly control it. accidents do happen but that would be the only reason you flipped, not lack of skills.

whenever you flip the boat and climb up on the inner hulls, the weight of your knees/feet on the hulls damages them a little each time. so many older boats have "wavey" hulls right where you stand and hold the righting line. for foam core boats this will create soft spots/delams and its even worse for the solid glass hulls giving the old "oil can" effect which leads to cracked glass. the hulls were not designed to be bounced on a whole bunch.

you definitely need to know how to right the boat easily and even more importantly, how to get back on the thing!(even trickier for us old fat guys!)

I used to believe a well sealed mast was all you needed, I have now changed my mind and will install a float this spring. I think someone else in an earlier post chided me for stating a float was not needed, I am in his camp now.
I sail a two man boat, solo quite a bit, & often with very few other boats around. My mast is sealed & will float if thrown in the lake.
Last fall I went over, the mast & top foot or so of the sail "dug in" as the wind (20-30 mph)drifted the boat & it turtled in less than 5 seconds. Getting it back on its side was an experience I don't wish to repeat. One other time, the only thing that prevented a full turtle was the 30' mast stuck in the mud. When you tip, as long as the mast is not dead downwind, the boat (mine anyway) seems to pivot, & the mast will stay floating. No matter how well the mast is sealed, if you are sailing in strong wind & flip with the mast tip dead downwind there is a very good chance that it will dig in. As the boat drifts, the short part that is in the water acts just like the curve of a chisel, & keeps diving. the drifting boat drives it further down, & you can turtle in seconds.
Most people leave the bottom end of the mast open for drainage. Imagine your boat turtled, that open drain, perched on top of the DS rod & mast ball is well above the tramp, meaning it is now underwater & filling up fast. With anysize openings it would only take a few minutes to take on several gallons of water, water that ends up right at the masthead. You now have a serious bitch of a problem. I was lucky & got mine wrestled back on its side very quickly. With crew in the wires & other mayhem you could easily be 5 minutes getting things sorted out, even a gallon or two at the masthead would make it very difficult to gat sideways, let alone right the boat.
It might not lok as cool, & if there is always help around, your water is shallow or yu never tip, a sealed mast is probably all you need.
I am going to prevent my boat from ever turtling. I know I can get it back from its side, full turtle might really wreck my day several miles from shore. Bring on the milk jug. I'm going to try fabricating one that weighs 1/2 of a Baby Bob.

I always did have an opening for draining and checking if there was any water in my mast, but it was never left open. I used a screw and sealant to keep it closed, the only time I ever took off the sealant and removed the screw was if I had flipped a few times and wanted to make sure that the mast was still sealed and no water was there. It is hard for me to believe that someone actually leaves the drainage hole open and not sealed when sailing.

Edchris177 wrote: I used to believe a well sealed mast was all you needed, I have now changed my mind and will install a float this spring. I think someone else in an earlier post chided me for stating a float was not needed, I am in his camp now.
I sail a two man boat, solo quite a bit, & often with very few other boats around. My mast is sealed & will float if thrown in the lake.
Last fall I went over, the mast & top foot or so of the sail "dug in" as the wind (20-30 mph)drifted the boat & it turtled in less than 5 seconds. Getting it back on its side was an experience I don't wish to repeat. One other time, the only thing that prevented a full turtle was the 30' mast stuck in the mud. When you tip, as long as the mast is not dead downwind, the boat (mine anyway) seems to pivot, & the mast will stay floating. No matter how well the mast is sealed, if you are sailing in strong wind & flip with the mast tip dead downwind there is a very good chance that it will dig in. As the boat drifts, the short part that is in the water acts just like the curve of a chisel, & keeps diving. the drifting boat drives it further down, & you can turtle in seconds.
Most people leave the bottom end of the mast open for drainage. Imagine your boat turtled, that open drain, perched on top of the DS rod & mast ball is well above the tramp, meaning it is now underwater & filling up fast. With anysize openings it would only take a few minutes to take on several gallons of water, water that ends up right at the masthead. You now have a serious bitch of a problem. I was lucky & got mine wrestled back on its side very quickly. With crew in the wires & other mayhem you could easily be 5 minutes getting things sorted out, even a gallon or two at the masthead would make it very difficult to gat sideways, let alone right the boat.
It might not lok as cool, & if there is always help around, your water is shallow or yu never tip, a sealed mast is probably all you need.
I am going to prevent my boat from ever turtling. I know I can get it back from its side, full turtle might really wreck my day several miles from shore. Bring on the milk jug. I'm going to try fabricating one that weighs 1/2 of a Baby Bob.

EdChris: FWIW..I agree 100% with your latest post in regards to my Hobie 14-T and 16. The 14 will turtle quickly regardless... the 16 not so much, but it will go all the way in high wind (especially after a beam/broad reach crash, but less likely upwind). Both have well sealed masts, but the reservoir I normally sail on is relatively shallow and muddy. If the masthead gets stuck, power assistance is required.....not good!

I also disagree that having openings at the bottom of the mast is not a good idea where it can be prevented. {Note that it may not be preventable on some boats (e.g., w/internal halyards)}. In addition to your point about turtling, if even what would otherwise be a small leak develops at the top of the mast, it will be much worse when air is allowed to escape from the bottom.

I still take my chances on the 16, but earlier this year I started sailing with two sealed gallon orange juice jugs on top of the 14 mast, then recently installed a Baby Bob (haven't had a chance to test it). The 14 is sailed mostly by my teenage daughter, so I'm even less inclined to take chances there!

Edited by rattlenhum on Jan 07, 2011 - 01:32 PM.