Jib lines hang up on mast

Here's a picture.

If your talking about a horn cleat, it should not be there. The cleats on a 5.5SL mast are 1 clam cleat for the jib and the the downhaul cleats on the swivels. There could be another pair of clam cleats depending on how the downhaul is setup. The block should be part of the jib halyard/downhaul and on the port side with the clam cleat. I have know idea why the eye strap is there, not stock along with the horn cleat.

Sold my 5.5 SL four years ago, great boat, sailed and raced it for 12 years.

If you run a bungee from the bridle wire to the back side of the diamond wire around the front of the mast, back behind the diamond wire, then back to the bridle wire on the other side, it will help keep the jib sheets from hanging up on the mast rotater.

Ok, the pic was not there when I wrote the first two, the clam cleat and block are for the jib halyard/downhaul rigged 3 to 1. The jib halyard comes down the mast, thru the block, back up to a block on the wire part of the halyard then down tru the clam cleat. Tie a stopper knot, Figure Eight, so that if your adjusting the tension while sailing, it doesn't come all the way out and the jib come down.

The eye strap is probably for the jam presenter I described above but going thru the eye, not around the diamond wires.

The jib halyard comes down the mast, thru the block, back up to a block on the wire part of the halyard then down tru the clam cleat.

Ron, thanks for clarifying the routing of the jib halyard. I had it routed differently, but it seemed to work. But I still don't know if that will prevent the lines controlling the clew of the jib from fouling on the aforementioned parts.

Thanks

The clew of your Jib should have a pig tail with 18-20 inches on either side with a single block the size of the block in your pic of the mast. The only hang ups I ever had was in very light air or forgetting to rig the jam perverter to keep the jib sheets from wrapping around the rotater. Should not be a big deal.

Roger that.

phantom917 wrote: But I still don't know if that will prevent the lines controlling the clew of the jib from fouling on the aforementioned parts.

Thanks

The bungee that Ron mentioned will keep the jib and it's block away from the mast. Run it in an A shape from the dolphin striker support a couple of feet to one side of the mast, then up through both sides of the diamond wires then down to the other side of the dolphin striker support.

Don't have a good picture of this handy so maybe you can take one after you do it. 😀

Nacra55 wrote: jam perverter

Dang Skipper, what are you spreading on your peanut butter?

The bungee that Ron mentioned will keep the jib and it's block away from the mast. Run it in an A shape from the dolphin striker support a couple of feet to one side of the mast, then up through both sides of the diamond wires then down to the other side of the dolphin striker support.

Damon, Ron, I tried it and it works! I will post a picture tomorrow as the sun is just going down now. Thanks, guys.

here is a photo of the mast on a nacra5.8 which shows the jib halyard blocks and the bungee to prevent the jib sheets from hanging on the mast.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64069794@N03/7973783554/in/set-72157631504676528
j

Edited by arch on Jan 16, 2014 - 09:32 AM.

Here is how I temporarily rigged the bungee and it seems to work just fine. The jib moves from one side to the other with little problem.

Thanks,

phantom917 wrote: Here is how I temporarily rigged the bungee and it seems to work just fine. The jib moves from one side to the other with little problem.
Thanks,

That looks good, actually looks like that eye-strap was added just for that purpose.

Bill, that is exactly how we rig the preventer on both the 5.7 & the 5.0. The eye strap is up higher though, & we also use it to hold the main halyard while sailing.
Dead end about a 9" piece of bungee,(or whatever you need) under that eye via a stopper knot. Attach a plastic bungee hook to the other end. Once you raise the main, & hook it, clip the plastic hook to the end of the wire portion of the main halyard, then stow the rest of the halyard in the pouch. The hook will prevent the wire end from flopping around.
Did you get BOTH manuals from Damon? There are 2 Nacra manuals, mostly the same, but the newer one has some better photos. Rigging the jib is ITEM 60 & 61. That explains how to rig it if you have a 2:1, or the 3:1 system.
How I read Ron's description seems like you run the entire jib line through the block,(sorry if I mis interpret this). On my 5.7 I tie the line portion of jib halyard to the becket hanging on the wire portion, BUT, leave a tail of appx 2' when you tie. Once jib is raised, you thread the 2' tail as Ron described, & cleat it. This is simpler than feeding the entire jib line through the block. Now stow the main portion in the tramp pocket.
Just looked at Arch' Flikr photo...it shows the setup, just modify it via the 2' tail where he ties to the becket. Also notice the empty eye strap at the top of the photo. You can run your preventer & piece of bungee I wrote about above through that fitting.

Edited by Edchris177 on Jan 16, 2014 - 08:02 PM.

I made my pigtails from 1/8" dyneema, with slippery eyes in both ends and a double brummel in the middle. Here are pictures: http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=96203

Edchris, I’m a newbie so forgive my responses if they sound naive.

Once you raise the main, & hook it, clip the plastic hook to the end of the wire portion of the main halyard, then stow the rest of the halyard in the pouch.

I don’t have a wire on my main halyard. I have one on the jib, but not the main.

I thought I had downloaded both of Damon’s manuals, but I only got the Nacra 5.2 - 5.5 Assembly Manual, not the Nacra Printed General Assembly Manual. The one I got is very helpful.

When I clicked on Arch’s photo when he posted above, it wouldn’t open, but now it does and it tells me a lot. Thanks Arch. I can see that he is using the diamond spreader to route the bungee jib preventer. It also shows how to route the downhaul.

Thank you,

phantom917 wrote: Edchris, I’m a newbie so forgive my responses if they sound naive.

Once you raise the main, & hook it, clip the plastic hook to the end of the wire portion of the main halyard, then stow the rest of the halyard in the pouch.

I don’t have a wire on my main halyard. I have one on the jib, but not the main.

The 5.5 halyard is all line, no wire.

The jib halyard is part wire and the line portion is 2 pieces.

The 5.5 halyard is all line, no wire.

Thanks, didn't know the 5.5 was different.

The jib halyard is part wire and the line portion is 2 pieces.

2 pieces, as in using sister clips? That would eliminate the need to string a long line through the block.

Bill here are the links to both manuals. They are on the page 5 of ALBUMS, Tech Help. It shows 1 icon, but when you click it there are 2 manuals. There used to be an ADOBE icon that allowed you to download the entire manual, vs the individual page scans. Don't see it now, maybe ask Damon.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=35212

I see a carabiner in the middle of the white/red line on the picture. If you use it to attach to the jib, sooner or later you will find the black bungee or something else inside inside the carabiner after a tack. Also, at some point you will start simplifying the rigging everywhere possible. I think that it is a good idea for that objective, to be able to quickly split the bridle (white/red) between the two blocks, not untying but with sister clips. That is assuming that you have a continuous jib sheet. I always remove the running rigging from the boat. For the jib, I just detach the two sheet blocks (the aft ones) with quick release shackles and take everything out. To attach the bridle to the jib, the sister clips are pretty quick too. In my case the bridle is short, both blocks very close to each other, the secret to be able to use sister clips ther is not to think of a line between the two blocks, but a loop, that is closed by te sister clips. The only problem is that the sister clips are likely too big to go through the blocks, i just tied a little loop to the block and go through that loop. I use a much thinner rope than yours, maybe 3mm.

Edited by Andinista on Jan 18, 2014 - 09:53 AM.

Edchris177 wrote:

The 5.5 halyard is all line, no wire.

Thanks, didn't know the 5.5 was different.

The jib halyard is part wire and the line portion is 2 pieces.

2 pieces, as in using sister clips? That would eliminate the need to string a long line through the block.

The 5.8 and 6.0 are also all line main halyards.

You could use sister clips, but I never did. Just tie the ends together with a sheet bend.

Edchris, I downloaded the one album I didn't have, the Nacra Printed General Assembly Manual. Thanks.

Andinista, The carabiner that attaches to the jib clew is what came with the boat. I just got it last month, so I'm still learning how it all goes together. Good point about bungee transfer on the carabiner. I'll keep an eye on it.

Regarding simplifying rigging: I am a BIG fan of that and have taken steps in that direction. Per the manual, the jib can be rigged one of two ways: the standard jib system where the jib block is attached to the pad eye on the side jib track OR the Deluxe 4 Way Jib System. I chose the former to keep the clutter down. I am not going to race and, since I will single hand most of the time, I want to keep the number of lines to a minimum.

Thanks guys. Great help on the forum.

In my opinion it's too far out, you don't need the 4 way system, just a fixed line from side to side, with one or more loops per side to attach the blocks. You need an unstretchable line, well tightened. Somewhere between the hull and the footstrap. More about this on the "n5.0 jib position" thread.

It's not if you race or not, it's do you want to point upwind or not. Having them all the way at the hull would be like sailing a H16 with the jib traveler all the way out on all points of sail. Jib blocks at the hull are way far out. They should be 6 to 8 inches out from the tramp sock (tramp material that covers the 4-way cable in the center of the boat) for upwind in light air. That's the starting point, then work your way out.

The barberhauler is what's used to get the jib leads out and trim for down wind, not the 4 way.

Ron, here is how my jib lines are laid out.

I don't know why the picture is fuzzy, but I've used four different pictures and they all come out fuzzy. I'm not going to hassle with it now. I've hooked up the jib this way in my driveway and tried moving the jib back and forth. There is a separate line that runs along the front crossbeam that allows you to pull either sheet towards the hull or can be relaxed to allow the jib to stay close to the mast. Is this incorrect? You guys know way more than I do.

Andinista, your version, although different, seems to mimic what Ron is saying.

Here is a better picture. I think I found out why the others were fuzzy.

The track on the hull is used to get the flow of air working the same in the top and bottom of the sail.
Moving it forward loosens the foot and tightens the leach.
Moving it back tightens the foot and loosens the leach.
Start in the middle and find where the top and bottom of the sail work together.
Set and forget unless in extreme conditions.

The line on the main beam is the barber hauler. Not tensioned unless being used.
Used off wind, reaching or downwind.
Pulling the line, brings the clew out and forward putting curve in the sail and tightening the leach.
Fall off the wind and get your tale tails flowing. If the tail tails are not working together, adjust the tension on the barber hauler to get the top and bottom tails working together. Then set the main.

Yes, Andinista and I are saying the same thing about the upwind position of the jib block.

Get a copy of Rick White's Catamaran Racing for the Nineties.
http://www.amazon.com/Catamaran-Racing-For-Rick-White/dp/1880871009

Thanks for the info, Ron. I'll give it a try.

The barber hauler is less necessary than the 4-way system, or a simplified version of it. I don't have a barber hauler myself, I don't race and don't sail long distances so I think I won't bother adding one. I installed blocks for the mast rotator and almost never use them either.. (I'm lazy).. Your boat looks good.

Ron, Andinista, I laid out the lines a little closer to what I think you were describing. Does this look OK?