How can I connect my front stay?????

This site has the specifications for shrouds and forestay.

http://www.cat44.com/hobie-16-technical-info.htm

Make sure that they are indeed too short. If they are I would return them.

Usually when I am stepping my mast I can only get my forstay to the first or second hole connecting to the bridle wires, but still have lots of play with my shrouds, until I tighten them down to the bottom hole.

But, for some reason I can never step my mast with the shrouds in the bottom hole, and get the forestay to connect.

http://www.cat44.com/hobie-16-technical-info.htm

wish there was some info arranged like this for the Prindles. Anyone know how long the line for the main with a 6:1 should be. I don't trap really but I always feel like I have way to much line on the tramp.

edited by: Quarath, Jul 20, 2009 - 10:36 PM

Quarath wrote: http://www.cat44.com/hobie-16-technical-info.htm

wish there was some info arranged like this for the Prindles. Anyone know how long the line for the main with a 6:1 should be. I don't trap really but I always feel like I have way to much line on the tramp.edited by: Quarath, Jul 20, 2009 - 10:36 PM

you mean like this

Barberhauler - 1/4? (6mm) x 16? (487.7cm) - White
Batten Ties - 3/32? (2mm) x 22? (55.9cm) - White (10)
Downhaul - 1/4? (6mm) x 15? (457.2cm) - White
Jib Clew Bridle - 3/16? (5mm) x 6? (182.9cm) - White
Jib Halyard - 5/32? (4mm) x 22' (670.6cm) - Black (2)
Jib Sheet - 5/16? (8mm) x 33? (1005.8cm) - Black
Main Halyard - 3/16? (5mm) x 58' (1767.8cm) - White
Mainsheet - 3/8? (10mm) x 40' (1219.2cm) - White
Mast Rotator - 3/16? (5mm) x 5? (152.4cm) - White
Rudder Pull Down - 3/16? (5mm) x 4? (121.9cm) - White (2)
Rudder Pull Up - 3/16? (5mm) x 5? (152.4cm) - White (2)
Tramp Lace Rear - 3/16? (5mm) x 10? 6" (320.0cm) - Black (2)
Tramp Lace Side - 5/32" (4mm) x 11' (335.3cm) Black (2)
Trapeze Adjustment - 1/4? (6mm) x 3' 6" (106.7cm) - White (4)
Traveler - 5/16? (8mm) x 10? (304.8cm) - Color

http://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=421&products_id=3667&osCsid=ea32a6

erice wrote: [quote=Quarath] http://www.cat44.com/hobie-16-technical-info.htm

wish there was some info arranged like this for the Prindles. Anyone know how long the line for the main with a 6:1 should be. I don't trap really but I always feel like I have way to much line on the tramp.edited by: Quarath, Jul 20, 2009 - 10:36 PM

you mean like this

Barberhauler - 1/4? (6mm) x 16? (487.7cm) - White
Batten Ties - 3/32? (2mm) x 22? (55.9cm) - White (10)
Downhaul - 1/4? (6mm) x 15? (457.2cm) - White
Jib Clew Bridle - 3/16? (5mm) x 6? (182.9cm) - White
Jib Halyard - 5/32? (4mm) x 22' (670.6cm) - Black (2)
Jib Sheet - 5/16? (8mm) x 33? (1005.8cm) - Black
Main Halyard - 3/16? (5mm) x 58' (1767.8cm) - White
Mainsheet - 3/8? (10mm) x 40' (1219.2cm) - White
Mast Rotator - 3/16? (5mm) x 5? (152.4cm) - White
Rudder Pull Down - 3/16? (5mm) x 4? (121.9cm) - White (2)
Rudder Pull Up - 3/16? (5mm) x 5? (152.4cm) - White (2)
Tramp Lace Rear - 3/16? (5mm) x 10? 6" (320.0cm) - Black (2)
Tramp Lace Side - 5/32" (4mm) x 11' (335.3cm) Black (2)
Trapeze Adjustment - 1/4? (6mm) x 3' 6" (106.7cm) - White (4)
Traveler - 5/16? (8mm) x 10? (304.8cm) - Color

http://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=421&products_id=3667&osCsid=ea32a6

Nicely done..

I use a 40' mainsheet on my P18, but I changed to a 7:1 system, which leaves a little less out on the tramp and imho is a good length.

Dustin, i have about 35' but have an 8-1.

I plan to cut off about 10' and add a 14" pig tail to drop the blocks down ... this means less lenght is needed to sheet in/out

MWSTOL-

Andrew touched on another possibility with your forestay. Do you have a pig tail attached? My pigtail is about 4-5 inches, and might explain why your forestay doesnt reach the blocks.

andrewscott wrote:
I plan to cut off about 10' and add a 14" pig tail to drop the blocks down ... this means less lenght is needed to sheet in/out

How will adding a pig tail reduce the length you need to sheet in and out?

smfinley wrote: [quote=andrewscott]
I plan to cut off about 10' and add a 14" pig tail to drop the blocks down ... this means less lenght is needed to sheet in/out

How will adding a pig tail reduce the length you need to sheet in and out?

Adding pig tail will reduce the length of the sheet itself.

How will adding a pig tail reduce the length you need to sheet in and out?

if i had 35' of line.. and have a 1' of control (the difference between lose and tightly sheeted)... if i reduce the 35' to 27' and lower the block.. i have less than distance for all the line to travel between all the blocks.. and less than 1' of control...

If you have an 8-1 system (as i do)
and the distance from the beam block to the boom block is 3'... you have 8x3' of line to sheet on your main as your "control area"

if you add a 1' pigtail.. you now have 8x2' to

so right off the bat.. i can remove 8' of line from my main (and have the same amount of line on my deck)

but also since there is less area between the beam and boom.. less is needed to "sheet in"

There is a net saving of line needed and needed to pull in to get the same adjustment (i think)

edited by: andrewscott, Jul 22, 2009 - 10:55 AM

but also since there is less area between the beam and boom.. less is needed to "sheet in"

There is a net saving of line needed and needed to pull in to get the same adjustment (i think)

You might want to rethink this Andrew. The overall length of sheet will be shorter, but the sheeting distance will remain the same. 8:1 is 8:1. can't change the physics.

Andrew I see where you could reduce the amount of line needed since the blocks will be closer together.

But in order to get the 8:1 block to move say 1 foot, how far apart they are has no impact on how much line you have to pull through the blocks to move it that one foot.

i am with mmump. unless you are concerned with the extra line wieght and cost then i would not bother with a pigtail. but for $1.58 a foot i might use a pigtail soon.

i wasnt sure about the "less to pull in".. thats why i added the (i think) at the end. It still is "boggling" my brain a little (it is a little brain to start with)

If i have 8x3' of line .... and i add a 1' pigtail.. then i have 8x2' of line to pull.. this is 1/3 less. wouldn't i have 1/3 less movement (pull) needed to move the boom the same amount (downwards towards the other block)???

OUCH MATH HURTS MY HEAD!

I know i will have less line on my tramp... and my line is a lot more than 1.58/foot...

also a small factor here.. but a pig tail on your blocks will also reduce windage by .000000008%.

Pigtails on the main blocks are great and highly recommended, especially on boomless boats like the N5.8, N6.0, and the N5.5. There are other ways to achieve this, like using a swivel snap shackle or similar on the top will add some distance. . .

I admit i am bad at math.. but i still feel there is less sheeting involved if there is less line involved...

i will have to pull out some blocks and sheets to get empirical data...

but the 2 braincells that still work are telling me.. there is less line to travel through the system with an 8to1 with 2' of gap (between blocks) than there is in an 8to1 with 3' of gap... thus 1/3 less line is needed to pull the blocks together

Yes there is less line in the system, which is why you can use a shorter line. However if you take the 8:1 with a 3' gap and then sheet it in to a 2' gap, you have just found how much line you can cut off. But now that you are at a 2' gap it doesn't matter if you have a pigtail on the top or if it directly connected to the boom, the amount you have to pull to go from 2' to 1' would be the same either way.

When you add the pigtail you loose the ability to get the boom as close to the beam. think of a H16, if you added a foot between the upper blocks and the boom, the boom could never get as close to the tramp.

Also make sure the pigtail is very strong. However hard you are pulling against the line, you are putting 8 times that force on the pigtail. All your mechanical advantage through the blocks does no good on the pigtail, so it is getting the full load of the sail.

Pull the sheet 8" and the upper blocks will move 1", regardless of the distance between them. Andrew, I know you don't drink, maybe that is why this is a problem. Do your empirical mumbo-jumbo voodoo testing and there you will find the answer. It really is quite simple. . . . 🙂

The beauty of the pigtail is that, if you add 6" of pigtail you will need to shorten your sheet by 4 feet, on my 10:1 a 6" pigtail will allow me to shorten it 5 feet. Does your head hurt now?

Damn all you and your "New Math"!!!! hehe.. make sense now.. (but i think its done with mirrors).

Yes if you have a h16 you can't use pigtail.. but that is the only cat (i know of) that wants its mast so raked and has its blocks to the beam. If i tried anything close to that... i would have either a bent mast or a shredded sail.

Not just mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

I referenced the H16 since most are familiar with it and I am not at all familiar with the Mystere 5.5. I presumed the extra length in the blocks was not an issue for you since you are looking at it.

Again remember to use a very strong pigtail.

Yes, strong line... ! This is a perfect application for "high tech line" and a chance to use my splicing skills...

4mm HM line (i.e Amsteel blue has a tensile streght of 4000 lbs) thats 15x times stronger than steel!!!

imagine a dinghy with a single mainsheet 1:1. pigtail or not you will have the same amount of rope in the boat

rch701 wrote: imagine a dinghy with a single mainsheet 1:1. pigtail or not you will have the same amount of rope in the boat

Ummm Rob... your example doesn't really relate.. we already know if you have 8 to 1 and you add 1' of pigtail.. you CAN remove 8' of mainsheet

with regards to the shroud wires being too short i had a similar problem with my 1974 hobie 16. i had to place the shroud wires in the uppermost hole on the attachments to the hull in order for me to be able to attach the fore stay. it also helps to have someone stand on the tramp and lean against the mast and un-pin the mast step link kit and attach the wire suggesting 3 people here and another to pull the fore stay taught while u clip the pin into the bridle. and have the person holding the mast lean against it. the shroud is behind the mast so leaning will prevent it from going anywhere. do this the first time u put the shroud up and after ur first good day of 10 knot wind the shroud will stretch and it shouldn't be a problem anymore. 🙂

I can not agree with what Rich said...

You should not take out your pin while stepping.. if you need to .. you have something wrong (bent step part, or more likely you are in the H14 hole, not the H16 hole).

Also if your forestay stretches in 10knot wind... you have a POS forestay. the amount of stretch on a steel cable should be unknoticable...

Since your jib will replace the forestay any way, you can add a chainplate to it to get it connected then run up your jib and reconnect the forestay right.

I would also check the rake and make sure your side stays are not getting bound up while steping the mast. you can lose an inch or 2 when the connections are not strait then when you get thing up, the extra strain pulls them strait and now you have a bunch of slack in the rig which can be very bad. Remember once the pin is pulled, the mast is free to float so it is possible for it to hop right off the seat and come crashing doen even in small seas

OK.. here it is.. i spliced a 13" piece of 4mm spectra into a pigtail on friday night. cut off 6' of mainsheet...

now my blocks have about 1' of gab between the top and bottom (reducing the 4' of gap)

i have less distance to travel between the top and bottom blocks. i can now sheet in and or out with 1 arm and never need to get more than 1 arm full for sheeting action!!!! 🙂

edited by: andrewscott, Aug 03, 2009 - 01:04 PM