Boat ramp launching

@28.5607131,-96.5382454,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864207acee5b79f7:0xd76f0dd1727df448!8m2!3d28.5602765!4d-96.542754"> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Magnolia+Beach,+TX+77979/ @28.5607131,-96.5382454,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864207acee5b79f7:0xd76f0dd1727df448!8m2!3d28.5602765!4d-96.542754

Is this the spot? Is that a public ramp? Is that a public beach to the right of the ramp.
If yes I'd step the mast near the ramp, launch, and paddle around to the beach and hoist sail there.
Could you go from trailer to beach wheel at that beach and rig up
right on the beach?

Edited by gahamby on Mar 19, 2019 - 06:29 PM.

badfish wrote:

The other problem is I will be solo. Having pulled a dinghy up that ramp with a dolly, there's zero way I'm hauling a P16 rigged up that ramp.

You can use the winch. Beach wheels required

gahamby wrote:
I still disagree with the idea of hoisting the sail with the boat on the ramp.
I think you would grind up the bottoms trying to get her head to wind.

It’s only going to grind the hulls if you place the boat directly on the ramp surface. As I said in previous replies, the options to prevent damaging the hulls would be to either put down a large piece of carpet or put the boat on beach wheels and use chocks/padding on the sterns. Both of these I have done or seen others do when rigging on hard surfaces. Better than having your boat tied to a dock banging around and trying to sail away or capsize IMO.

sm

Andinista wrote: [quote=badfish]

The other problem is I will be solo. Having pulled a dinghy up that ramp with a dolly, there's zero way I'm hauling a P16 rigged up that ramp.

You can use the winch. Beach wheels required

1 set of wheels? - 1 person - 1 winch .... up the ramp?

I could see it with the trailer in the water but just the cat up the ramp?
that would require balancing the boat perfectly, and not tipping while winching ... sounds difficult

It depends on the angle of the ramp. I always take the boat off the trailer and back in with the wheels, but on a flat spot. The small wheels in front of the trailer are adjustable and alow to adjust the back cradles height to slide the bows in easy. At that point i secure the boat to the trailer with a quick knot (i have a tow line always handy). Then slide the wheels back and continue with the winch. If you have rollers it should be much easier and alow for some angle. If done with the back cradles just above the water it should be much easier, but not below, as you say it would be hard to keep the boat in place. In my case i almost never move the trailer, it’s just where I store the boat (otherwise I should pay for the cat and the trailer)

gotcha, trailer at the water's edge ...
not with the trailer up the ramp

I actually have a second set of wheels, but to optimize the process:
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=130721&g2_imageViewsIndex=1&g2_GALLERYSID=024968164541e313d716ae97b6afe576
These wheels serve two purposes:
Avoid sliding the other wheels back, which takes some time and is not so good for the hull bottoms, and replace the hull chocks (at a very similar price)
But they are not sturdy enough, so I don’t promote the idea

Edited by Andinista on Mar 20, 2019 - 06:54 PM.

When we belonged to the yacht club, I exclusively launched from a ramp. I had installed 2 1" PVC vertical tubes on the inside sterns. These would keep the stern aligned when I pulled the boat out. I had the system down where I would dunk the trailer where the front hull support was almost to the water. This would hold the boat on the trailer. I don't have a sail box for this reason, and I don't have one anymore. To keep the box on the trailer and dry, you could back the trailer down the ramp until the back end of the box get to water. Bring the boat to the trailer and just pull it up onto the trailer. This gets tiring at the end of the day. Install a winch and winch it up. Or, build a block and tackle. Either go around the mast step, which is strong enough on the Prindle, or make a quick bridle that attaches to the front cross beam. The bridle may help bring the boat straight as the single point may allow the boat to pivot around until the bows are on the front supports. The big trick is planning your wind direction. For a ramp that I used on the Bay, I stored the boat backwards on the trailer because the wind blew onto the ramp. You can beat up rudders doing this, be careful. I have installed a lot of the dock guards at the ramps so that I don't scratch everything.

Not sure what your ramp's like. On the two ramps I use I can back up until the bottom of the trailer wheels are just on the edge of the water. I can slide the boat off the trailer, then walk it over to the beach next to the ramp and finish rigging. To load it I do the opposite with two people, at least, it's pretty easy easy to pivot the boat onto the trailer and then slide it on (at the back of my trailer the hulls are on rollers).

Each summer for the Tri-Point Anacapa Race about half the racers launch from the Ventura Ramp parking lot using Cat Trax and foam pads for the transoms. The rest of us back our trailer down the ramp until the rear trailer crossbar is just above the water (wheel bearings stay dry) and push the cat into the drink. In both cases, the mainsails are on the trampoline and the jib is rigged and not sheeted (or roller furled). Once on the water, we tie off to the furthest point on the dock (the absolute end is best) and raise the main from the trampoline. Raising the main this way in not my favorite, but with a coordinated effort with your crew is can be well done.

We trailer 900 miles round trip for the race, so even though I use Bearing Buddy's and the covers, I'm careful with my wheel bearings.

The angle of the ramp allows the two of us to push the boat back up on the trailer, but it is not easy. I have fantasized about an electric winch pulling up the cat by the front crossbeam, and using it to help me raise and lower the mast.

MN3 wrote: If you are solo - you are (possibly) in for real trouble if you get to the ramp and it's windy either launching or retrieving.

Agreed. This can be a terrifying situation.

Edited by klozhald on Apr 08, 2019 - 06:57 PM.

"I have fantasized about an electric winch pulling up the cat by the front crossbeam, and using it to help . me raise and lower the mast."

We have an "older" guy on our beach that uses a winch/remote on his (gcat) mast for both stepping and unstepping - seems to work well for him

I had a dream... using a winch to help pull my cat/trailer into my backyard so i didn't have to wrestle my 500lb cat and 800lb trailer into my back yard (solo) every week ...

i purchased a harbor freight atv winch and built an anchor/platform for it

set it up and hit the remote .... all was great for about 20 seconds and then it stopped - wouldn't start again
so i re-read the owner manual ... and called up a friend about duty cycles. ends up this HF turd would go about 20 seconds in the fl heat and then take a 15 min break

i would advise anyone who wants a winch for this to do a lot of homework on the duty cycle of the winch

on a totally unrelated note: i have a hardly used HF winch for sale 🙂

Launching and landing from a ramp can be tricky, particularly when the wind blows perpendicular to the docks, as it usually does in Ventura. I was so familiar with my old Hobie 18, that I would land at the end of the dock. the big BIG risk here is that if the bow clocks around to the windward side of the dock, you are totally screwed, with the boat on a beam reach down the dock with no way to stop it. I only had one time where that situation started to develop so I just pushed off the dock and tried again. You really have to be aware of this developing and abort right away.

Below is a video of one of my landings at the end of a dock, which starts at the 3:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OciFVggYvB4

Or watch the whole think if you'd like to see my annotated screw ups with the down haul line and tiller stick.

I think I pulled this method off once with the Prindle 19 in light air. You really have to know the boat behavior to pull this off and I am just not there yet with the Prindle. So the other method is the raise the boards and starboard rudder in advance, then come in on a beach reach between the ramps (scaring the crap out of any bystanders on the ramp), then rounding up at the last second, jumping off on the ramp side, getting control of the bow, and walking it to the dock. This is not all that easy either.

mattson wrote: Launching and landing from a ramp can be tricky, particularly when the wind blows perpendicular to the docks, as it usually does in Ventura. I was so familiar with my old Hobie 18, that I would land at the end of the dock. the big BIG risk here is that if the bow clocks around to the windward side of the dock, you are totally screwed, with the boat on a beam reach down the dock with no way to stop it. I only had one time where that situation started to develop so I just pushed off the dock and tried again. You really have to be aware of this developing and abort right away.

Below is a video of one of my landings at the end of a dock, which starts at the 3:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OciFVggYvB4

Or watch the whole think if you'd like to see my annotated screw ups with the down haul line and tiller stick.

I think I pulled this method off once with the Prindle 19 in light air. You really have to know the boat behavior to pull this off and I am just not there yet with the Prindle. So the other method is the raise the boards and starboard rudder in advance, then come in on a beach reach between the ramps (scaring the crap out of any bystanders on the ramp), then rounding up at the last second, jumping off on the ramp side, getting control of the bow, and walking it to the dock. This is not all that easy either.

WOW !

Impressive single handed docking w/gybe in big wind! It's a lot to think about solo.

I single-handed yesterday, where our beach launch requires us to go shallow, round up 180º, unlock our floating wheels, load the boat on them and then push it uphill backwards onto the beach. Very manageable in heavy wind w/2 people and a Hobie rudder system, but rudders on older boats like my P18 (and your P19) do not unlock manually. Solo, I need to ground them first. Either that or jump off in just the right depth, kick them up by hand and race to the front before the bows start moving again.

I found that having the Hawaiian righting system with a chicken line running down the side of the hulls makes it much easier to handle the boat as you walk all around it by yourself. It helps me avoid backing the rudders in the sand or having a runaway cat. I think it would help quite a bit when docking, as well.

Sailing in warm water with tide ranges of less than 3 feet helps too.

Bill, your docking technique was pretty, but we'd like to see your video outtakes some day. :-O

I've dock landed a few times with my prindle 19.

The way I usually do it is land into the wind or close to and completely blow the main. I also keep my jib halyard (detached part) tied onto my by bridle lines to use as a bow painter if needed and I'll grab that and hold it tight and back the boat into a cleat. The. Use my righting line as a spring. I also have used my righting line as a spring when landing on more of a reach

Mattson wrote: So the other method is the raise the boards and starboard rudder in advance, then come in on a beach reach between the ramps (scaring the crap out of any bystanders on the ramp), then rounding up at the last second, jumping off on the ramp side, getting control of the bow, and walking it to the dock. This is not all that easy either.

Bill's elegant dismount at the end of the dock in this video is beyond us mortals, so the rest of us have to make do with the technique he describes above. It all happens so quick, you have to pull up the starboard rudder and centerboard before you gybe, and keep all your lines clear and in-hand during the reach between the docks so you can dump power and cut into the wind simultaneously. Many have mis-timed this and crashed into the dock under power (and under-insured!).

In other news, rumor has it Bobby Martinez once sailed up virtually to the concrete at his crew's insistence because they were being followed by a shark and the crew wanted really shallow water to jump into. Film @ 11.

Edited by klozhald on Apr 08, 2019 - 07:47 PM.

MN3 wrote: so i re-read the owner manual ... and called up a friend about duty cycles. ends up this HF turd would go about 20 seconds in the fl heat and then take a 15 min break

i would advise anyone who wants a winch for this to do a lot of homework on the duty cycle of the winch

You related this in a post a few years back when I was scouting for a winch and looking at the same HF you used. What I found was that in the less than $100 range all the winches through Amazon and eBay with decent duty cycles pulled at a 1.7 foot-per-minute speed. Really frustrating, but less than if I had not seen your post and bought what I was looking at before.

When a trailer and beach wheels are not viable options, a couple 10ft sections of 4” or larger pvc pipe will roll your boat beautifully.

If it was good enuff to build the pyramids,.. :woohoo: :peitsche:

You related this in a post a few years back

I thought the story sounded familiar 🙂

When a trailer and beach wheels are not viable options, a couple 10ft sections of 4” or larger pvc pipe will roll your boat beautifully.

+1

nohuhu wrote: Impressive single handed docking w/gybe in big wind! It's a lot to think about solo.

I single-handed yesterday, where our beach launch requires us to go shallow, round up 180º, unlock our floating wheels, load the boat on them and then push it uphill backwards onto the beach. Very manageable in heavy wind w/2 people and a Hobie rudder system, but rudders on older boats like my P18 (and your P19) do not unlock manually. Solo, I need to ground them first. Either that or jump off in just the right depth, kick them up by hand and race to the front before the bows start moving again.

I found that having the Hawaiian righting system with a chicken line running down the side of the hulls makes it much easier to handle the boat as you walk all around it by yourself. It helps me avoid backing the rudders in the sand or having a runaway cat. I think it would help quite a bit when docking, as well.

Sailing in warm water with tide ranges of less than 3 feet helps too.

Bill, your docking technique was pretty, but we'd like to see your video outtakes some day. :-O

I can see the Hawaiian righting system would be really handy to control a boat solo. Instant handling of the bow and stern.

No outtakes were filmed. I think it is amazing that I stuck the landing with a camera running.