The annoying questions begin - (Nacra 5.2)

I'll take the first crack. Here are some quick answers. You might want to post some pics. Plus you local dealer and the factory tech folks should be able to help you.

1.Went through a dry run stepping and rigging and raising sails. The most important thing I discovered is that the mast on the N 5.2 is a lot heavier than the one on the H16. Managed to bend the dolphin striker rod bringing it back down. I?ve read a good bit on this site about stepping, but if anyone has tips specific to my boat I?d appreciate your input.
A: Heavy as heck and not for the faint hearted. My 5.8 mast needs to be turned sideways when lowering or stepping. Also you need a stool or sawhorse to support the mast when on the ball and down. You will need to replace the rod. I bent mine and replaced it. $75-100.
2. There appears to be a cleat on the forestay adjuster. I?m guessing this is for a downhaul but there is no line on my jib for that purpose. Is the cleat for something else?
A: Might have had a furling assembly at one time & that is where the halyard was cleated. My halyard cleats to the mast.
3. On the mast hound there is a hole above the one that serves the attachment of shrouds and stays. The guy who owned the boat before me apparently used this hole for connecting the trap wires with a carabiner. Does that seem like the proper arrangement?
A: Right positon wrong hardware. See parts manual.
4. It?s painfully annoying to use split rings for completing connection of the mast hinge pin and forestay pin and gooseneck pin. Do you guys just use quick releases for all of these things or substitute spring clips for the rings? I can see using a quick release for something like the hiking stick but my first thought is to worry about them popping out of an important connection like the forestay. I suppose what I'm really asking is are the quick release pins safe and reliable?
A: I dont trust QR Pins. Rings Rings Rings and waterproof electrical tape.
5. At the base of my mast there are just two clam cleats. I know there should be a downhaul for the main and my jib halyard has a block for (I assume) tensioning the sail. My question is ? what happens to the main and jib halyard tails? Is the proper procedure to raise the sails, then use downhauls and other adjustments for tension while the halyard tails are free and stowed? (I have to admit, it kind of goes against the grain not to have halyards securely cleated off.)
A: Tails: I tuck them away in my tramp pocket.. Main adjusted via downhaul. Jib via halyard and adjuster. The cleats you refer to work fine. You might want to send us pics. Seems that downhaul parts are missing. Are there pullies or cam blocks on your mast base? Sail hardware?
6. There?s a pad eye about four or five feet up on the front of the mast. Does anyone know what that?s for? A: Send us pics.

4. It?s painfully annoying to use split rings for completing connection of the mast hinge pin and forestay pin and gooseneck pin. Do you guys just use quick releases for all of these things or substitute spring clips for the rings? I can see using a quick release for something like the hiking stick but my first thought is to worry about them popping out of an important connection like the forestay. I suppose what I'm really asking is are the quick release pins safe and reliable?
A: I use qr pins most places I can except the forestay. When I bought the boat it had a QR there, too, but I was told too many horror stories of 'helpers' yanking the QR pin in the forestay trying to take down the jib. I use a normal clevis pin there now.

5. At the base of my mast there are just two clam cleats. I know there should be a downhaul for the main and my jib halyard has a block for (I assume) tensioning the sail. My question is ? what happens to the main and jib halyard tails? Is the proper procedure to raise the sails, then use downhauls and other adjustments for tension while the halyard tails are free and stowed? (I have to admit, it kind of goes against the grain not to have halyards securely cleated off.)
A: I have both of the tails set up to be easily removed..anything quick works here (sister clips, shackle, etc)

6. There?s a pad eye about four or five feet up on the front of the mast. Does anyone know what that?s for?
A: After removing the tail on the main halyard I hook it to this eye on the mast. If for some reason the halyard comes unhooked at the top the sail should stay up by hanging onto the eyelet.

One thing to remember about quick pins "THEY ARE HOLLOW", they will fail under enough stress and age. Clevis pins are solid.

Hey,
I just purchased a 5.2 also several months ago (I also come from a H16 background) and went through many of the same things. I may be able to help a bit too.

A.1. Step the mast on a flat surface. I know that they say to be on an incline with the bows facing up, but the mast seems way heavier when you step that way. If you are walking onto the tramp rig a sturdy step up so it is a little easier, or have someone hold it up while you get on the tramp. You have to turn the mast 90 degrees when you step/unstep it or it bends the dolphin striker bar. I did the same thing, pounded it back a bit and have been sailing with the a bent rod. It is definitely better to replace but I don't think it will break that close to the end provided the ball is still on properly and isn't completely munched. I've been sailing with the bent one without issues while my new one gets here.

2.A. Yes that is for the jib downhaul. I think it may have been an option on the 5.2 but was standard on some of the other boats they made at that time (along with the main downhaul). They probably used the same forestay adjuster on all of them. You can look at it in the old assembly manual on Performance Catamaran's site and cobble it together from parts if you think you need it.

3. A. Yep that's for the trap lines. Should be connected with a large bow shackle though, don't use carabiners on anything on the boat that will be under stress (even the stainless ones), that means basically everything connected to the mast.

4.A. I use QR harware for the boom to sail , boom to gooseneck, mainsheet block to boom, mainsheet block to traveler car, hiking stick, jib tack, halyards and jib to forestay, and on the connections for my jib blocks. I don't think anyone trusts them on the shrouds or the forestay connections to the boat.

5. Yep that's for the Main downhaul. You may not have a block for them though (again some 5.2s have it and some don't). In that case you attach 1/4 rope to the eyelet on the left side of the mast up inside the mast rotator arms through the eyelet on thetack of the sail and then down through the cleat. This give you at least a 2:1 purchase.

The main halyard line is meant to be untied and stowed in the tramp pocket. The jib halyard is supposed to be cleated off, but there isn't a neat place to put the extra line (that I have found). Or you can rig a cleat for that on the mast also.

6. A. That is for the jib preventer. It is just a 6' piece of shock cord that you tie to the outboard ends of the dolphin striker and run through the eye on the mast. It prevents the jib from getting caught under the mast casting when you tack.

Hope this helps, I don't know everything about the boat yet, but I think I asked myself all those questions at least twice.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the time everyone took to share their experiences. It's especially valuable in that many of you have Nacras.

Yeah, I really blew the mast lowering thing. I remembered turning it ninety degrees when raising, but was so concerned about how it would work to lower it with the winch that I just forgot about turning on the way down. I'll go pick up another rod from Nacra sometime this week (gonna opt for the conservative route there). If anyone has tips on replacing that rod I'd be interested.

One of the things that concerned me upon thinking about the heavy mast was the idea of righting when solo. I was able to right the H16 I had pretty much with just a righting line, but I think this beast is going to require some extra muscle, or gear. Anybody know anything about this system - http://www.catsailor.com/power_righter.html

Thanks to everyone for the downhauls and halyards advice. I think I've got that stuff sorted out. I will add that I talked to someone at the manufacturer who said they did set up some of the 5.2s to run the jib halyard back down the forestay (inside the luff) and cleated off at the adjuster. He said that because the mast bent when trapped this avoided de-tensioning the jib luff.

Seems like the qr pins issue might be a debate worthy of the Hobie v. anything else battle. I'm currently planning to stay conservative on the standing rigging and go with convenience elsewhere. I would still welcome further information on how others make use of these (or other) devices, Nacra or not.

I do have one more question. If I remember correctly, the H16 got forward tension on the mast from the jib luff, not really the forestay. Is it the same for the N5.2? I guess what I'm really asking is how tight should the rigging be?

Thanks again for all the help.

Hey Dave,

First, thanks for your help. Sounds like our experiences have been very similar so far.

Along those lines, I was wondering if you know how the jibsheet blocks are controlled. Without some sort of traveler control it seems pretty clear that when under load they'll just tug forward until they jam against the tramp. I know there must be some sort of line control (I think I've seen it in photos) but cannot find anything in the manual or online. Have you dealt with this yet?

Or if anyone else knows, feel free to chime in.

you run a line to the rear beam to limit the forward pull, tie it off at the saddle and experiment with differnt positions until you find the best

someone said 31inches forward was best for their 5.2

when i got my 5.2 i searched for and save any pics i could of 5.2's and nacras off the net

has answered lots of Q

check the albums on this site for airborne's pics

tighten the rigging until the mast stops rotating smoothly then, back it off a hole on the forestay

1 of the many racing features of the 5.2 is jib luff tension adjustment at the mast base, i don't bother using it solo

erice - Very clear and concise in both cases. Thank you.

Just a couple of questions: What is the saddle? (My first thought was to tie off at the strap eye that the wire connects to.) Also, I infer from your description that this is not an adjustable (on the fly) setup, is this correct?

I actually do have airborne's pictures bookmarked. Went to check them after I posted and realized that's where I saw the lines, but still didn't know the setup.

Anyway, thanks again.

RLC,
Check out the pics here:

 http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=35563  

This guys has his setup dialed in really nicely and it is pretty much stock for a pre 1986 5.2. The way he has the rudders setup is really nice too, I saw it an immediately converted to that.

This link

  http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=35619  

Shows the jib block line disappearring under the tramp, he has a hole in the tramp where the line leads back to the rear beam.

This next link of a 5.2 redo also shows jib block wires going under the tramp, it also shows the barber hauler system which pulls the jib lines outboard on either side. You may or may not have these

  http://radesignz.com/graphics/sailing/08/redo/IMG_2582.jpg  

The main site is also a really good source of pictures to see how you can setup your boat:

  http://radesignz.com/graphics/sailing/08/redo/IMG_2582.jpg  

I will try and takes some pics of mine when I am back out at the cottage two weeks from now.

Regards,
Dave

Oh and one other thing, you probably realized the jib works completely differently than a H16. The main reason being that the luff of the 5.2jib overlaps the main sail. i.e. you can pull the jib clew back behind the front beam. This is also the reason you need a jib preventer.

D.

RLC wrote: What is the saddle? (My first thought was to tie off at the strap eye that the wire connects to.)

yes, that's the place

Also, I infer from your description that this is not an adjustable (on the fly) setup, is this correct?

correct, but if you put a couple jam cleats on the rear beam and just run the line through the strap eye on the way to the jam cleats it could be adjustable on the fly. some 5.2's are setup like that
however, the best position is usually dependent on the shape of the jib and that isn't going to change...

the strap eye on the front of the mast is where i have a short length of bungee with a clip on the end. once the sail is raised and halyard ball hooked on the heavy wire section will flap around unless held somehow. so i clip it to the bungee going to the strap eye. this keeps it under tension. the line section of the halyard i loop and tuck into a $1 shop mesh bag i sewed onto the tramp. the jib halyard gets tucked into the mid-tramp tube sleeve

i don't have any pics of my 5.2 up on the web but if you stop these videos at various points you can see just about everything there is to see on it

http://www.vimeo.com/5075989

0.55 for the jib block position lines, but sailing uni

1:05 for the halyard bungee

have since replaced the dodgy jib blocks (with nylon cam-cleats that wore and slipped the sheet), for the correct harken ones with alloy cam-cleats, (from the parts classifieds here)

http://www.vimeo.com/5258062

jib sheet jam prevention bungee 0:27

mast rotator, downhaul, jib halyard stowage in tramp tube sleeve 0:44

that last power boat was on a collision course with us until i turned to cut across his wake, where he looked up from texting on his phone and gave me a dirty look for surprising him like that

edited by: erice, Jul 07, 2009 - 07:32 AM

"...that last power boat was on a collision course with us until i turned to cut across his wake, where he looked up from texting on his phone and gave me a dirty look for surprising him like that."

Well, who the hell do you think you are, bothering him that way?

Very cool video. Thanks.

Nice to know the boat sails well as a uni. Figured I'd do that when solo 'til I got wired on the boat. Do you have any idea what the wind speed was when you were out on that lake? Do you have any trouble tacking, or tips on how to get the bows through without a jib to backwind?

Great Video's: Questions: Where/What lake is that? Where did you get those decals? What is the trick for tacking that cat without a jib.

I've got to get me one of those new waterproof digi's. Great videos. How did the fishermen feel about getting buzzed?

"Nice to know the boat sails well as a uni. Figured I'd do that when solo 'til I got wired on the boat. Do you have any idea what the wind speed was when you were out on that lake?"
not too sure, about 10mph?, wouldn't have usually gone without the jib in 10mph but 1 of the jib blocks cam-cleats was slipping and soloing without jib cleats isn't really possible

"Do you have any trouble tacking, or tips on how to get the bows through without a jib to backwind?"

in light to medium winds a 5.2 will generally coast through a tack well without a jib if you have enough speed when starting the tack
so when taking out friends or kids i usually leave the jib off and remove the tramp mounted jib blocks and sheet. still have to prepared to back the boat onto the new tack occasionally

(uncleat the traveller and push the boom and rudders in the direction you want to sail and hold them there while the wind, working on the BACK of the sail, pushes the boat back and around so you are facing the way you want to go. once the hulls are around onto the new tack, let go of the boom, center the rudders and SLOWLY pull in the traveller so the wind switches sides of the sail and the boat starts moving forward again and the rudders start to bite)
however, once the wind picks up it will punish any sloppy tacks by weather vanning the nacra's large and high hulls dead into wind

so when it's blowing strong enough that the waves are white capping i will remove the jib to make the boat more controllable AND try to hit all tacks with more speed and RELEASE the traveller and ot the main sheet when going into tacks

with the traveller released going into the tack all the boat speed can go into getting the hulls across the wind while the mast/sail just pivots on it's step. once the hulls are well across the wind SLOWLY pull the traveller back to center while building up forward speed again
this method does seem to kill boat speed coming out of the tack but when it's white capping i'm more concerned about keeping the boat upright and undamaged than ultimate boat speed

the lake is surrounded by volcanoes in almost the geographic center of japan, the high sides make the winds very fluky and gusty so it's quite challenge when the winds are blowing. most of the time however the winds are very light so the tall mast big sail area is perfect for pushing around just 1 person

the graphics on the boat were painted on with ordinary household enamel over our long winters

the "cool cat" name is the "chiller" font found in ms office. each letter was printed at A4 size, then enlarged to A3 size on a big copier, then cut in half and enlarged again to A3. giving about 50cm tall by 25cm wide letters that were cut out, taped to the hull and drawn on with pencil, then hand painted

similar for the nacra 5.2 on the hulls and mast with the lettering shape coming from a photo of the old cracking decal before it was pulled off

ideally the sail image would have been projected on to the sail with an lcd projector from an image on a computer while it hung over a garage rafter? the projected image traced around and then painted on

BUT, with no projector it was done old school, breaking the tiger's head into 1cm squares and transferring them onto a 10x12cm grid on the sail

painstaking work but a fun way to channel michaelangelo doing the sistine chapel:o)

edited by: erice, Jul 07, 2009 - 08:42 PM

RLC wrote: I'll go pick up another rod from Nacra sometime this week (gonna opt for the conservative route there). If anyone has tips on replacing that rod I'd be interested.

RLC, please take pictures (before during after) while doing the repair/replacement, I have pictures of the Hobie 16 mast step replacement in the technical photo album but nothing for NACRA, you will help out the next 5.2 guy with the same problem.

Thanks,

Hello 5.2 lovers!

If you guys need any pics or any help with your 5.2 just let me know. I have a 5.2 and wouldnt mind taking whatever pics you need. I have modernized my 5.2 a little and can help out if needed. I will be setting her up this weekend and will be more than happy to take plenty of pics. I have a 84 5.2 with new style mast, Smyth rags, equipped with a I17R spin. If you guys need specific pics post up what you need and i will take the pics this weekend when its set up. If you need pics or descriptions of other parts of the boat that doesnt require the mast being up i can snap them tonight after work. Glad to see there's still interest in the old 5.2. I love mine and will continue to sail it as long as possible.

Damon - be happy to, as long as I remember (mind like a steel sieve).

Turbocat - since I'm new to the 5.2 I'm always interested in hearing about others' experiences. Some of the questions raised in this thread might benefit from your reactions. Also, I'm interested in changes from stock that owners have made that allow their boats to be faster, or safer, or lighter, or easier, or faster.

As an example, I'd like to know how many have barberhauler setups and whether they find these to be useful or not.

I do run a barber hauler. In heavy winds it can be quite usefull downwind. I could live with out it but it didnt cost a whole lot to add it on the boat. I am going to start rigging my mast rotation very soon. I am copying the system off of the I17R/Nacra18 and putting the same setup on the 5.2. This will allow me to adjust the rotation from the wire and will increase the purchase immensly. I will take some pics of my boat and post them for you to see. You may get an idea from them or it may look like every other 5.2 out there.....It doesnt look like the rest. My front decks were glassed in after strengthening was done inside the hulls. I have smooth hulls in front of the crossbar now with no deck at all.....Smooth.

Here's a pic i had on hand of the smooth front decks

Hey everyone,
I'm also interested in any pics of 5.2's especially upgrades/mods/improvements. Even stock photo's are great to figure out how to set it up properly, the old manual leaves a bit to be desired. Some of that is due to the poor resolution of the copy on Performance Cat's website.

Dave

Here's a simple and cheap thing to help the rudders...Increase the purchase for around $10-15. Two blocks and some line. This really helped me pull the rudders nice and tight. I have since added balls to the ends. I tried t handle but the leeward would flap around too much.

If you have to replace your pivmatic's buy the ones with the metal cleat or retrofit.

heres my pieced together barber hauler system.

Nothing special here..Pretty standard.

There are two types of diamond wire systems on the 5.2. One is a single bar that goes through the mast with little adjustability. The second system is pictured. Im told the system pictured is stronger and more adjustable. I dont know this to be fact but i have noticed alot of the newer boats use this system rather than the single bar?

These cleats are there to aid the bungee system. When the boat is beached or being moved on the wheels i place the line in the cleat and all the strain is taken off the bungee. If your bungee isnt 100% and you push the boat backwards up the beach and the rudder drops....SNAP. The bungee goes through the hole in the rudder...I have a small piece of line tied through the same hole, Its maybe two feet long. Changing the bungee is a pain so this is can help it last longer. If you dont want any spring assist from the bungee use airbornes system with the extra cleat on the bar.

Notice the eyestrap on the left of the beam. I have a loop tied in a piece of line...I feed the non looped end through the eyestrap on the left and then a few feet later i have a stopper ball. I have this on both sides with a piece of bungee tied to the stopper balls. When not in use the bungee pulls the line in and out of the way. This is a chicken line that holds me to the boat when sailing solo under spin. You can put one of those cam cleats on the harness end of the rope and have it adjustable. I use a small stainless caribineer on the loop. Jump out on the wire and then clip the caribeener onto the trap line or harness. The rope then pulls out through the eyestrap and when im fully extended the stopper ball hits the eyestrap and limits my movement on the wire...This is great for rough sea conditions. I always carry a knife so i can cut away in an emergency.

I dont actually use a caribeener...I use the thing that looks like a caribeener that has the threaded lock assembly. Forgot what the proper term is? I leave it in the open position and use it like a hook. You dont want to be locked in incase of emergency or accidental gybe. If sailing solo under spin you can leave the clasp/caribeener thing hooked onto the wire so you have one less thing to deal with.

I will probably have to post the pic tomorrow of the actual system so you can really understand what im saying.

Basically before you hop on the wire

erice nailed the info on tacking...Be sure to get as much speed as possible and ease the sheet going into and through it. If your running a jib and are having trouble tacking in the beginning backwind the jib. Get as much speed as possible, start the tack, release a fair amount of main sheet, continue turning, Now you go through irons and hear the jib fillup with air. The jib is still sheeted on the wrong side at this point. Once the jib fills up on the wrong side and your through the irons sheet to the proper side and slowy sheet in main as you build speed. This is not ideal for speed but it works when your new to sailing and trying to figure out weight placement on the 5.2.

I will post up rigging photos tomorrow if i get off work early enough. I could always make a video and throw it up on youtube. Ill try to answer any questions with pics but i can make avideo too. Video will take a week or so though.

edited by: TurboCat, Jul 09, 2009 - 06:38 AM

Great info. I love the glassed over decks. I have a 1982 N5.2 with the old style mast...I wish I knew how to convert it to swept spreaders or had a way to replace it.

I'd love to see any more pics you've got. The 5.2 is new to me (been sailing a P18 for the last couple years) and it was fairly neglected for years before I found it, so I've been trying to update an fix everything I can.