Next boat

I have a spin on my H18 and it’s a beast. And technically some 18s did have spins from the factory. The big bows handle it really well and it’s just as fast as anything if you sail it right. I paced a N17 for 2 hours in a distance race with spins up. If you search there’s a big thread on adding the spin on the H18 I made. One on here and one in the H18 area on the hobie forum.

If you have trouble pushing it uphill on beach wheels then you need better wheels with big tires that are fully inflated. It makes a difference. My old wheels are twice as hard to push as the big balloon wheels in sand.

We have the balloon tires on Cat Trax. They're nice wheels and I made sure there was no sand in the bearings, but our rocky ground still makes it challenging to cross.
Do you have the comptip mast? Does the spin attach below the comptip?

when you say 17.. do you mean a hobie17?
cause unless you and wife are VERY small - this is a 1 person boat

Are you talking Nacra 17? cause that's a whooole latta money and if you have that budget ...
your choices are huge

the step from an H18 to a F16 is pretty huge (in gear)
totally do-able, but your rigging time will quadruple

you can get a spin set up to work on almost any boat but the smaller the deck, the more impact all the additional lines and controls get in the way

If you wish to really explore other brands/cats - tell us more about your budget, and sailing conditions and we can provide better recommendations

Has anyone here had any experience with Rick White's "hooter sail"? It's basically a genoa sail or a big jib.

I had a Hobie 21 spinnaker on my Prindle 19 that I used in multiple Mug races, and other distant races including Rick's Steeplechase. It's a handful in a breeze!

There is an article on the Hooter sail if you do a google search "Rick White the hooter sail"

Edited by czbob75f on Jan 04, 2018 - 03:11 PM.

We have the balloon tires on Cat Trax. They're nice wheels and I made sure there was no sand in the bearings, but our rocky ground still makes it challenging to cross.

For me its about 3 things, weight slope and balance of the tires
1. I get all the weight off the boat i can within a few trips (main, cooler, radio and drybags) - will take off rudders and remove centerboards if i need to

2. If i have a beach, i will traverse the boat side to side to change it to a gentle slope vs right up the hill

3. the wheels have to be secure in the exact right spot.. other wise your fighting it and wasting energy and attention

i can solo my 5.5 or 6.o up my beach this way
of course i prefer help

I think local conditions determines the optimal tire type and psi

Ropewalker,

I sent you a PM. I put an aftermarket spinnaker on my Hobie 18 as well and wasn't particularly thrilled with the setup. This was on an aluminum rig. Part of it may have been the kite (Smyth 18HT, not cut specifically for the H18) or possibly something else. I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking it, but I suspect the issue was the boards which are raked too far back for the kite resulting in lee helm downwing, and my rudder setup. It definitely needed EPO's, the plastics were too flexible for good control downwind.

Also, do a full inventory of costs before going down this route. A new spinnaker is ~$1000, the bag plus hoop are $400, the pole is another $100, there are $50 in pole fittings and tackline blocks, then you have the spinnaker blocks themselves ($300) and the spinnaker sheet ($100). All that works out to $1950 worth of equipment you are adding to a boat worth about the same.

You can probably find a good used Hobie Tiger for not much more than what it would cost you to add the spinnaker+sell your Hobie 18 for. That would also move you into a more modern/faster upwind package with self tacking jib and square top main, plus overall setup designed to take a kite. Just my 2 cents.

-Sam

czbob75f wrote: Has anyone here had any experience with Rick White's "hooter sail"? It's basically a genoa sail or a big jib.

I had a Hobie 21 spinnaker on my Prindle 19 that I used in multiple Mug races, and other distant races including Rick's Steeplechase. It's a handful in a breeze!

There is an article on the Hooter sail if you do a google search "Rick White the hooter sail"Edited by czbob75f on Jan 04, 2018 - 03:11 PM.

From what I've read/heard the hooter and its article is mega old school and it's sorta written to sell sails...clearly. There's probably a very limited angle you can take that thing anyway and I'd be impressed if anyone has really put a new one on a boat in years. Most modern gennaker sails are realtively flat but not a on a 100 foot pole like the hooter. Just look at the F16/F18 boats.

The spins we had Chip at whirlwind cut are slightly downsized F18 spins. If you get one ask for the Florida H18 spin. (technically the normal one he sells now but just in case he changed the size). I run a solid mast but 2 other Hobie 18's run the exact same spin and those are on comp tips. They used a H16 mast tang. I used a soft bale system that holds the head of the spin in the same position but I didnt have to rivet into the mast. Here's a shot of their boats drying out after a rain.

They ran their pole height a little high so realistically you could drop the attachment point down about 10-12" and be fine. We have had them in heavy air and no problems with the comp tip masts. Heres the thread where a lot was discussed https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=57416

Cost was around a grand. 780ish for the spin, and then a long halyard, spin sheet and harken ratchamatic blocks. The other boats bag launched for awhile but now have snuffers. I made my own out of a pool noodle SNU copy. Sewed up the bag myself. It's really easy to make your own work, really. If you have to buy everything new they all up maybe 1500-1600.

I have perfect helm with this spin and a 12 foot pole. Traveller is barely let out if at all so basically the sail plan is at full power. Helm problems come down to either pole length or traveler position issues. We used windsurfing masts cut down. I stuffed a H18 boom gooseneck in the back of my pole but the other guys just cut a notch in the back and slipped it onto the dolphin striker.

from what i recall: Rick's Hooter was designed for the Hobie Wave
Possible to use on other boats but had limited range, appeal and use

and in case you didn't know ...

Rick started and ran a non hobie sanctioned Wave Fleet

They used modified gear (tillers and tramps if i recall, maybe even sail cut but i can't recall the details) that hobie didn't sanction.

they had annual / national races in the keys, and several other fleets held their annual races there at the same time (really nice venue)

at the tradewinds event - http://www.photoboatgallery.net/f112041223

they also had wave fleets/races in put it in bay, ohio

MN3 wrote: when you say 17.. do you mean a hobie17?
cause unless you and wife are VERY small - this is a 1 person boat

Are you talking Nacra 17? cause that's a whooole latta money and if you have that budget ...
your choices are huge

the step from an H18 to a F16 is pretty huge (in gear)
totally do-able, but your rigging time will quadruple

you can get a spin set up to work on almost any boat but the smaller the deck, the more impact all the additional lines and controls get in the way

If you wish to really explore other brands/cats - tell us more about your budget, and sailing conditions and we can provide better recommendations

The N17 specs look good to me, but they are newer and there are reported problems. The responses I've read from Nacra (e.g. the dagger wells) have been up front and reasonable, so I think they handle troubles well. But, I've never seen one, let alone sailed on one.

As for cost, the N17 is pushing the budget a bit. I've seen some older models (before the Olympic version) advertised for less than $10K.

Edited by ropewalker on Jan 04, 2018 - 06:27 PM.

if that is your range ....

I recommend you contact Robby (and Jill) of RedGear Racing (in Clearwater fl) and talk to them

they are .... dealers/trainers (olympic) for several brands and can help get you in the right boat and train you how to sail it

And if that is your range (and desired sled)... you're going from the grand-dad's Lincoln Continental to a modern, high tech, F1 carbon fiber rocket with lots and lots of control lines and turing blocks

hang on and please post pics

where do you sail?

Edited by MN3 on Jan 04, 2018 - 05:47 PM.

Ropewalker,

I have sailed with a guy that had a hooter on a P19 many years ago. Sailed upwind an a light breeze with it but it was a handful. Yea, I got hooked as well and ended up retrofitting a huge fat spin on a P19. Hard to look back once you get one. I kinda agree with the others. Plenty of later generation F18s (Nacras/Hobies) that can be had that are setup with the spin for under 5k. Maybe around 4K if you are patient.

If you do the H18, I would suggest a noncomptip mast. When I did my P19, I used a mast bail from the nacra 20. My biggest issue was finding a pole. People have suggested using windsurfer masts. I have no idea what I ended up using. I dont remember what I used for my bag/hoop either. I MIGHT have just did a bag on the tramp. Somehow I ended up with a "bag" and a mid pole hoop that I still have. Heck, as I own a P18-2 I toy with the idea of adding a used spin setup as is, but then think I would rather have a newerish F18. The struggle is real....

Jonathan
Mesa, AZ
Solcat - sold
Prindle 16 - sold
Prindle 19 - sold
Nacra 20 - sold
Prindle 18-2 - current
C2 - Future

MN3 wrote: if that is your range ....

I recommend you contact Robby (and Jill) of RedGear Racing (in Clearwater fl) and talk to them

they are .... dealers/trainers (olympic) for several brands and can help get you in the right boat and train you how to sail it

And if that is your range (and desired sled)... you're going from the grand-dad's Lincoln Continental to a modern, high tech, F1 carbon fiber rocket with lots and lots of control lines and turing blocks

hang on and please post pics

where do you sail?Edited by MN3 on Jan 04, 2018 - 05:47 PM.

I'm in Tucson, AZ. We usually sail in Lake Pleasant or Roosevelt.
Are most of the additional control lines due to the spin?

I also see some F18's for sale at what seem good prices. At 396lbs though, they're roughly the same (advertised) weight as my H18. But, they'd come with a spin and new hull design.
For whatever reason, Used H18 Tigers and Wildcats seem to be attractively priced, so that's tempting.

Edited by ropewalker on Jan 04, 2018 - 07:36 PM.

samc99us wrote: Ropewalker,

I sent you a PM. I put an aftermarket spinnaker on my Hobie 18 as well and wasn't particularly thrilled with the setup. This was on an aluminum rig. Part of it may have been the kite (Smyth 18HT, not cut specifically for the H18) or possibly something else. I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking it, but I suspect the issue was the boards which are raked too far back for the kite resulting in lee helm downwing, and my rudder setup. It definitely needed EPO's, the plastics were too flexible for good control downwind.

Also, do a full inventory of costs before going down this route. A new spinnaker is ~$1000, the bag plus hoop are $400, the pole is another $100, there are $50 in pole fittings and tackline blocks, then you have the spinnaker blocks themselves ($300) and the spinnaker sheet ($100). All that works out to $1950 worth of equipment you are adding to a boat worth about the same.

You can probably find a good used Hobie Tiger for not much more than what it would cost you to add the spinnaker+sell your Hobie 18 for. That would also move you into a more modern/faster upwind package with self tacking jib and square top main, plus overall setup designed to take a kite. Just my 2 cents.

-Sam

I sent you a PM in response.
I have seen Tigers for a couple thousand more than I paid for my H18. This certainly is attractive. Nothing against Hobie, but I do like the looks of the Nacra H18 too. I wouldn't mind getting as new as I can afford.

Brett

Are most of the additional control lines due to the spin?

yes! can go from an empty tramp to a spaghetti monster quickly (lines everywhere)

competing for deck space (and adding to the giant hockle waiting to happen) with your jib sheet, main halyard, mainsheet and traveler line.. you now have an additional:

new spin tack line on main beam (or other)
new spin halyard a few feet up a mast that may or may not be part of the halyard system
new spin sheet running across your tramp
turning blocks on port/stbd front beam
turning blocks on prt/stbd side stays
probably a bungee and block somewhere above or below deck to help control all the line when slack
possibly a bungee system to help suck up excess spin sheet when snuffed

Are you a racer?
If not ... i would recommend a different breed

like a newer N570 or similar

Jonathan wrote: Ropewalker,
Plenty of later generation F18s (Nacras/Hobies) that can be had that are setup with the spin for under 5k. Maybe around 4K if you are patient.

can you show me examples at this price?

[quote=MN3]

Are most of the additional control lines due to the spin?

yes! can go from an empty tramp to a spaghetti monster quickly (lines everywhere)

competing for deck space (and adding to the giant hockle waiting to happen) with your jib sheet, main halyard, mainsheet, anchor and line if you have one, and traveler line.. you now have an additional:

new spin tack line on main beam (or other)
new spin halyard a few feet up a mast that may or may not be part of the halyard system
new spin retrieval line (may be part of the halyard)
new spin sheet running across your tramp
turning blocks on port/stbd front beam
turning blocks on prt/stbd side stays
probably a bungee and block somewhere above or below deck to help control all the line when slack
possibly a bungee system to help suck up excess spin sheet when snuffed

Are you a racer?
If not ... i would go a different route (personally)

like a newer N570 or similar with a spin

Edited by MN3 on Jan 04, 2018 - 09:20 PM.

Whoa, hey .... I have an F16 and rigging time is NO WAY quadrupled compared to an H18 with a spinnaker. Also, I can sail the F16 Blade from main only to main, jib & spinnaker solo. Even with everything being rigged, I can be on the water in less than an hour doing all the set up by myself including raising the mast.

If you were a little closer, I have a Hobie Tiger for sale (listed on this site) for a good price. Even though you aren't, I would find an F16 or F18 already set up with a spinnaker rather than updating a H18. Modern forms are a wonderful thing compared to older models. No offense intended because I still enjoy getting my H14 out on the right days.

Whoa, hey .... I have an F16 and rigging time is NO WAY quadrupled compared to an H18 with a spinnaker.

ok - tripple
the point was - an h18 was a simple 70's desing
an f16/18 is a 2000's desing with a LOT more controll lines, and supporting lines and blocks -
it is a large leap in tech/gear

how fast can you solo step your mast, rig your spin, jib and main?

i can't rig either of my current cats (mystere 5.5 & 6.0) in much less than an hour (plus 30 to 45 min for a spin), or longer - I still think it's about 4x the rigging time 🙂

ymmv

We have the same back and forth about rigging my Corsair F-242. The boat designer says you should be on the water 45 minutes after you pull up to the ramp. I have had the boat five years now and never have been under 1.5x that time but others have.

Before I bought my F16, I routinely rigged my Tiger (jib was already on the forestay) all three sails plus stepping the mast solo in less than an hour. Over the years I refined a process to where there was no wasted time and it worked for me. This was my first season with the F16 but with everything smaller and lighter, I have a target of 45 minutes for next season. I have no doubt I will get there even though the jib needs to be hanked on each time (no furler and I am not using the selftacker setup).

How close are you to upstate NY because next summer I could come out and show you my process. I stand by less than an hour including the spinnaker.

From what I've read/heard the hooter and its article is mega old school and it's sorta written to sell sails...clearly. There's probably a very limited angle you can take that thing anyway and I'd be impressed if anyone has really put a new one on a boat in years. Most modern gennaker sails are realtively flat but not a on a 100 foot pole like the hooter. Just look at the F16/F18 boats.

Yeah, I guess you're right.. a reacher at best. Mega old school ideas. What were we thinking putting a sail on the end of a 100 foot pole?

BTW, Is that Rich Brew sucking on the water bottle at the Rudder Club in your photo?

MN3 wrote:

Are most of the additional control lines due to the spin?

yes! can go from an empty tramp to a spaghetti monster quickly (lines everywhere)

competing for deck space (and adding to the giant hockle waiting to happen) with your jib sheet, main halyard, mainsheet and traveler line.. you now have an additional:

new spin tack line on main beam (or other)
new spin halyard a few feet up a mast that may or may not be part of the halyard system
new spin sheet running across your tramp
turning blocks on port/stbd front beam
turning blocks on prt/stbd side stays
probably a bungee and block somewhere above or below deck to help control all the line when slack
possibly a bungee system to help suck up excess spin sheet when snuffed

Are you a racer?
If not ... i would recommend a different breed

like a newer N570 or similar

I would like to be able to sail more points in lighter conditions, pointing high as well as better downwind. It gets old just going back and forth across the lake between the same two spots. Also, sailing on an I20 with a spin was a blast, even in light wind.
I'm used to dagger boards by now.
I like the idea of the N17 because it is a lighter boat, with a lighter (CF) mast, and it's designed for a mixed crew. But, they're $15K+. I could probably find an F18 for much less.

Brett

dssaak wrote: We have the same back and forth about rigging my Corsair F-242. The boat designer says you should be on the water 45 minutes after you pull up to the ramp. I have had the boat five years now and never have been under 1.5x that time but others have.

My buddy claims he can get from lot to wet in 45 min on his F-31 (but that's not extending the ama's out)
i have helped him rig 3 or 4 times - feels longer to me 🙂

Before I bought my F16, I routinely rigged my Tiger (jib was already on the forestay) all three sails plus stepping the mast solo in less than an hour. Over the years I refined a process to where there was no wasted time and it worked for me. This was my first season with the F16 but with everything smaller and lighter, I have a target of 45 minutes for next season. I have no doubt I will get there even though the jib needs to be hanked on each time (no furler and I am not using the selftacker setup).

Extremely impressive
and not standard

I would expect a sailor who is new to this type of boat spend close to 2 hours rigging time

I have NEVER seen anyone with a modern design (n20, f16, f18) rig in under 1 hour (sans the gcat 5.0 turbo that may fit the f16 box rule but hardly a modern styled f16)

How close are you to upstate NY because next summer I could come out and show you my process. I stand by less than an hour including the spinnaker.

haha - thanks but i will take your word on it - i have no reason to not believe you

ropewalker wrote: [quote=MN3]

Are most of the additional control lines due to the spin?

yes! can go from an empty tramp to a spaghetti monster quickly (lines everywhere)

competing for deck space (and adding to the giant hockle waiting to happen) with your jib sheet, main halyard, mainsheet and traveler line.. you now have an additional:

new spin tack line on main beam (or other)
new spin halyard a few feet up a mast that may or may not be part of the halyard system
new spin sheet running across your tramp
turning blocks on port/stbd front beam
turning blocks on prt/stbd side stays
probably a bungee and block somewhere above or below deck to help control all the line when slack
possibly a bungee system to help suck up excess spin sheet when snuffed

Are you a racer?
If not ... i would recommend a different breed

like a newer N570 or similar

I would like to be able to sail more points in lighter conditions, pointing high as well as better downwind. It gets old just going back and forth across the lake between the same two spots. Also, sailing on an I20 with a spin was a blast, even in light wind.
I'm used to dagger boards by now.
I like the idea of the N17 because it is a lighter boat, with a lighter (CF) mast, and it's designed for a mixed crew. But, they're $15K+. I could probably find an F18 for much less.

Brett

You can find an older F18 for less certainly, but you are also talking about boats that are 15+ years old with associated wear and tear, plus outdated well everything. Not an issue for recreational sailing, but if you want to race, its an issue. Keep in mind a brand new F18 is $25-$27k without a trailer, beach wheels, hull chocks or any covers. A brand new N17 Mk. 2 is $35k, also without any of the above. These are performance race boats and as such carry a bit of a price premium. Part of that is also a result of lower demand in recent years, manufacturers have to amortize $50k + in tooling in some way.

The Nacra 17 Mk. 1's are cheaper because the market has dried up. They are no longer class legal for the Olympics. They are also very squirrely boats to sail because they lack winglet rudders and therefore like to go down the mine or pop wheelies. The build quality on many is also suspect, even for club use you would be lucky to get 2-3 years out of one. Maybe 5 if you found a really high quality one (i.e Bora's). None of the Olympic sailors I have spoken with and/or sailed with liked the boat in its original form. The new Mk. 2's are much better built (all carbon construction), much safer to sail (far more pitch pole resistant), but they also carry an appropriate price tag and limited availability as initial production is all going to the Olympic squads.

Also, the N17 carries the same sail area as a F18 and from all reports the sheet loads are higher than on an F18 because the speeds downwind are a bit higher, resulting in higher apparent wind speeds and higher loads. If you take a look at the winning female crews, they are closer to a wrestler in upper body form than anything else.

MN3 wrote: [quote=Jonathan]Ropewalker,
Plenty of later generation F18s (Nacras/Hobies) that can be had that are setup with the spin for under 5k. Maybe around 4K if you are patient.

can you show me examples at this price?

https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15369-2005-hobie-tiger.html

ropewalker wrote: [quote=samc99us]Ropewalker,

I sent you a PM. I put an aftermarket spinnaker on my Hobie 18 as well and wasn't particularly thrilled with the setup. This was on an aluminum rig. Part of it may have been the kite (Smyth 18HT, not cut specifically for the H18) or possibly something else. I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking it, but I suspect the issue was the boards which are raked too far back for the kite resulting in lee helm downwing, and my rudder setup. It definitely needed EPO's, the plastics were too flexible for good control downwind.

Also, do a full inventory of costs before going down this route. A new spinnaker is ~$1000, the bag plus hoop are $400, the pole is another $100, there are $50 in pole fittings and tackline blocks, then you have the spinnaker blocks themselves ($300) and the spinnaker sheet ($100). All that works out to $1950 worth of equipment you are adding to a boat worth about the same.

You can probably find a good used Hobie Tiger for not much more than what it would cost you to add the spinnaker+sell your Hobie 18 for. That would also move you into a more modern/faster upwind package with self tacking jib and square top main, plus overall setup designed to take a kite. Just my 2 cents.

-Sam

I sent you a PM in response.
I have seen Tigers for a couple thousand more than I paid for my H18. This certainly is attractive. Nothing against Hobie, but I do like the looks of the Nacra H18 too. I wouldn't mind getting as new as I can afford.

Brett

PM responded to. The Nacra Infusion F18 is a better boat than the Hobie Tiger, far more pitchpole resistant downwind and just smoother and easier to sail all around.

If you are targeting the $10k price range, you can probably get into a older Nacra Infusion or possibly AHPC C2 ( https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15269-2010-goodall-design-c2-f18.html , https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p14981-2011-f18-ahpc-c2.html).

Infusion Mk. 2's go for more as they are held in a bit higher regard than the C2 but mostly as they are just less available.

Thanks Sam, i have not seen any nacra f18's for the 4-5k range, I have seen some tigers.

samc99us wrote: [quote=MN3][quote=Jonathan]Ropewalker,
Plenty of later generation F18s (Nacras/Hobies) that can be had that are setup with the spin for under 5k. Maybe around 4K if you are patient.

can you show me examples at this price?

https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15369-2005-hobie-tiger.html

MN3 wrote: Thanks Sam, i have not seen any nacra f18's for the 4-5k range, I have seen some tigers.

There will definetly not be a 2nd gen Nacra f18 for that price. There was a MKI for sale for san diego for $4,900 and was on this site and craigslist as of last week, but it might have sold as I cant seem to find it.

Jonathan

Edit. Actually here it is for $5,900 but I saw it for 4900 on craigs before.

https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15367-reduced-21-2006-nacra-infusion-mk1-f18-w-2f-trailer.html

Edited by Jonathan on Jan 05, 2018 - 11:54 AM.

samc99us wrote:

PM responded to. The Nacra Infusion F18 is a better boat than the Hobie Tiger, far more pitchpole resistant downwind and just smoother and easier to sail all around.

If you are targeting the $10k price range, you can probably get into a older Nacra Infusion or possibly AHPC C2 ( https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15269-2010-goodall-design-c2-f18.html , https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p14981-2011-f18-ahpc-c2.html).

Infusion Mk. 2's go for more as they are held in a bit higher regard than the C2 but mostly as they are just less available.

Good info Sam in your PM: exactly what I was looking for.
It sounds like there were some build issues with early Nacra F18 Infusions, and possibly with the new 17's. I suppose that's to be expected, but I'd like to avoid those issues. I've read reports of weak hull seams in some of the NF18 Infusions - not good if widespread, and something to check when shopping.
The C2 certainly sounds like a good boat, and I'm surprised to hear you say there are more of them available than the NF18 Mk2. I was concerned with parts and support, and expected a small number to have been imported.
Any racing I do would be with a mixed multihull club, not specifically F18 since there aren't that many boats here. Monohulls and multihulls race together with a handicap (different start times). It's fun blasting past some high end mono's :-).

Brett

Edited by ropewalker on Jan 05, 2018 - 11:04 AM.

Jonathan wrote: [quote=MN3]Thanks Sam, i have not seen any nacra f18's for the 4-5k range, I have seen some tigers.

There will definetly not be a 2nd gen Nacra f18 for that price. There was a MKI for sale for san diego for $4,900 and was on this site and craigslist as of last week, but it might have sold as I cant seem to find it.

Jonathan

Edit. Actually here it is for $5,900 but I saw it for 4900 on craigs before.

https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15367-reduced-21-2006-nacra-infusion-mk1-f18-w-2f-trailer.html Edited by Jonathan on Jan 05, 2018 - 11:54 AM.

That particular boat has been sailed to death and needs a new set of rags ($3500), the old set are completely shot even for club level racing.