My second catamaran

Hey, measure the width of the mast, Bryan. I have an extra Hobie hound that looks pretty new, I think. Just need some dimensions. Make absolutely certain you use at least sealed stainless rivets, if not monel rivets. But, to be honest I've never found a primary source for monel rivets... Let me know.

Don't bother changing the mast hound (tang) for the sole reason of getting one with two holes. Two holes are so you can have your trapeze wires on a separate shackle above the shrouds. If you feel the original is strong enough you can still make it work, just put the trap wires on last, if the eyes are too small, get two small shackles to go on each side of the big one. The main thing is to keep the wires from wearing each other when you are trapezing. Remember the mast will be rotated when you are sailing and that helps keep everything up there that's loaded apart. The halyard length should not be any longer than what you absolutely need regardless of what the manual says. If having all that extra line when the sails are up bothers you cut them in half, connect them with sister clips and after you hoist your sails remove them.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Chuck I'll measure my width but probably will not rush to change out the hound.

We got a lot done tonight. We figured out and installed the outhaul, downhaul, main sheet, and traveler. The gooseneck was all screwed up. See picture. I looked at the manual and figured out that the part that was pinned to the gooseneck swivel should actually go to the tack.

The way the gooseneck was put together, all the downhaul forces would go through a cotter pin. That seemed sketchy to me - what is the normal setup? I ended up using an AN4 bolt and an all-metal lock nut. I have lots of airplane hardware.

I have to figure out what length I need my main sheet. I have a 5:1 with the two pulleys on the boom. I'm intending to use the end of the main sheet for the traveler.

We also got our rudders and tiller on. When we got the boat the left and right tillers were swapped. We put new rudder cams on but keep getting the starboard side stuck in the locked position. We could use some advice on what we are doing wrong.

Grease - need to grease the cams. I don't know if the 16's have the same screw to tighten the spring loaded ball, but if it's jammed too tight that may affect it, though not as much as the part in the tiller that grabs the cam (forget what it's called), but it's adjustable and could be too far forward...if it's close to the same as other Hobies.

charlescarlis wrote: Grease - need to grease the cams. I don't know if the 16's have the same screw to tighten the spring loaded ball, but if it's jammed too tight that may affect it, though not as much as the part in the tiller that grabs the cam (forget what it's called), but it's adjustable and could be too far forward...if it's close to the same as other Hobies.

Thanks - we will grease them. I assume a plastic safe silicon type grease is good, like used on brake systems. Or is something else preferred?
My only adjustment is the preload on the spring loaded ball.

Yeah I use Superlube, but only because I've got it but actually with Delrin (I think it is), I think you're good with most anything you stick your hands on. I thought marine grease was recommended by Hobie, so i wouldn't stress. Think you'll kill the cams before they dissolve.

Jib halyard cheek block: Usually folks just bust off the damaged sheave (so it doesn't chew up line) and use as is with a little more friction. Uncommon to find a older used mast with any sheave at all!

I always figured the #12 gudgeon screw thing was to boost part sales! Good news is that, if you strip the hole, it's easily tapped to 1/4 " and those screws are readily available.

I also make my own aluminum rudder pins from hardware store stock.

As long as the hole isn't worn excessively, the one hole mast tang will work fine. Most common issue is that the thimbles for the trap wires can get bound up pointing skyward (which can happen with the three hole tang as well). If you make sure they are pointing the right direction just before raising the mast you'll be good.

For storage, it's common to run the free ends of the halyard lines down around the horn cleat, up through the halyard shackle, then back down to the horn cleat with a few wraps and hitches. That might account for the extra lengths.

Interesting gooseneck! Do you have the vertex (Hobie Part No. 50772031: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-gooseneck-hinge-vertex/ ) to which the boom pin attaches? If not, let me know....I may have a spare I can send you. The cotter pin holding the downhaul ring is huge....never seen one fail. A Trentec gooseneck bearing is well worth the $10: https://westcoastsailing.net/trentec-gooseneck-bearing/

Recommended mainsheet length for 6:1 is 44', and that's actually a few feet too long. For 5:1 I think they called for something closer to 40'. (Maybe add a little for when you get sick of those Seaways and upgrade to the Harken triple blocks? 🙂 )

Rudder kick up/lock down stuff: There's a really good FAQ on hobiecat.com regarding maintenance and adjustment. Excessive wear/slop in castings, gudgeons, etc. on older boats adds to kick up issues, but just a good cleaning may help. If (big IF) you can get that big delrin screw out of the lower casting, maybe take it all apart, clean, and reassemble (put some anti-seize compound on the delrin screw threads). Make sure the plunger has a smooth dome shape on top....a flat spot will cause issues. White lithium (marine) grease is commonly used on the cams and plungers. You need just enough tension that the rudder will stay locked down on a screaming reach. Lastly, for whatever reasons, the whole assembly will often act completely different while wet and under sailing loads as opposed to dry sitting on the trailer.

Did you find the battens you need? I may have some old rough ones I can send, but they probably aren't even worth the the (oversized) shipping cost. On a $400 boat, I'd be tempted just to stick some plastic screen molding or such in there and snug it up just enough to keep the leech from flapping.

Edited by rattlenhum on Jun 19, 2021 - 08:27 AM.

rattlenhum wrote:
Interesting gooseneck! Do you have the vertex (Hobie Part No. 50772031: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-gooseneck-hinge-vertex/ ) to which the boom pin attaches? If not, let me know....I may have a spare I can send you. The cotter pin holding the downhaul ring is huge....never seen one fail. A Trentec gooseneck bearing is well worth the $10: https://westcoastsailing.net/trentec-gooseneck-bearing/

Did you find the battens you need? I may have some old rough ones I can send, but they probably aren't even worth the the (oversized) shipping cost. On a $400 boat, I'd be tempted just to stick some plastic screen molding or such in there and snug it up just enough to keep the leech from flapping.Edited by rattlenhum on Jun 19, 2021 - 08:27 AM.

Jerome,
I don't have the vertex. I didn't know I was missing it until I saw your post. I'd take you up on your offer. I'll shoot you a PM.

I did get a full set of battens. My mains came yesterday, and my two missing jib battens should arrive tomorrow.

Many thanks for a helpful post.

We found a batten tensioner solid model on thingiverse and printed out enough for the battens that didn't have one. Here they are gluing on.

We designed a pocket end for the other side. Same thing, these are gluing on with epoxy.

Is this a legitimate hiking stick for the helm or is this somebody's hombrew thing? It seems to be steel.

Tonight we are going to install the battens and step the mast another time. I want to make sure we have the jib rigging set up.

My kid edited some rigging video and posted it. No sailing, just setting up.
https://youtu.be/yxnXHrzOkf0

I didn't get the battens in, except for the #1 and #2 jib ones. The rest go in today. I think we are down to that, plus:
1) Sealing the mast at the top
2) greasing the rudder cams
3) installing bungees for the trap lines

Then waiting for the first good day. I think it will be on the weekend and no more than 10kts for our first trip.

Battens are in. Most of my batten ends are 3D printed.

I discovered that the seal for the mast is under the halyard pulley. Hopefully that seal is good. Do they go bad? Should I yank the pulley off and re-seal that part?

This sail has been repaired. Several batten pockets have been restitched. This was done by a professional sail maker. After seeing the workmanship, I have no concerns about my own sewing work.

In the prior post I said our first trip would be on the weekend. I meant to say weekday. Less rental kayaks to mow down.

The plugs can go bad and the boat is very old. One way to tell is to remove mast, submerge it, look for bubbles, and listen for water sloshing around in there. If you capsize and the mast takes on water, the boat may be a bear to right.

Maybe put that on your off-season to-do list if nothing else.

FYI.....there should be another plug a foot or so up from the mast base, and all fittings/rivets on the mast should be sealed.

Thanks Jerome, we will put that on our off-season list. Probably would be a good time to update the mast hound as it's a little busy up there with 3 stays and 4 trap wires on one hole. We had to use another couple of shackles for the trap wires.

Also thanks for that vertex. My gooseneck looks good now. Question, is the boom pin supposed to pull out this far?

Our swivel was bent, so I took it off and straightened it. Seemed hard to cleat the traveler with it so low to the tramp.

Some practice on the trapeze:

Here are some questions I posted over on the Hobie forums, but I'll repeat here in case any beachcats members know the answers but are not on the hobie forum:

1) Shroud tension - how tight should they be? They have to be a little loose for us to be able to connect the forestay. Then when we crank the jib halyard tight, we can still push the mast side to side a little bit. If I move both adjusters 1 hole tighter I can make that go away, but we would need to loosen them up for stepping and dropping the mast.

2) Rudder cam tension - we had a broken cam and replaced them both. The guys over at the beachcats forum let me know I had to grease the cams, which I did last night. When down and locked, it seems easy to push on the bottom of the rudders and get them to unlock. We have the delrin screw in as tight as it will go. Is this normal/OK? I am worried the drag on the rudders will pop them back but I don't have the experience to know.

3) Mast stepping - when raising the mast, the ball on the bottom of the mast seems to go forward of the socket. We always need two people, one to push the bottom of the mast aft to get it to drop into the mast base. Are we doing something wrong?

4) Mast base - the hole for the stepping hinge is cracked. Not all the way through, but I think I'll want to replace it sometime. Do I need to replace the mast base and step as a pair? Or would a new base be compatible with my old step? I don't want to change the rake if I don't have to. It seems that I'd need new shrouds and also it sounds like the 5:1 mainsheet is not optimal for a more raked mast. Hard to justify a $400 6:1 on a $400 boat/trailer.

5) Jib Halyard - it seems to bind at the top. Is there something to look for or am I just not used to how it tensions up? Hard to see what is going on with the little pulley when it is up that high.

6) We have one trap harness and for the life of me I can't figure out how to wear my PFD and the harness at the same time.

So how scary is this crack in the hole for the step hinge?

Boom pin: Yes, it's longer than necessary, but the boom will slide all the way forward when installed and outhaul set.

Main traveler cleat: Someone probably stepped on it during mast raising. Can bend it back up with a couple of vice grips or such without removing it.

Shroud tension: First, set shrouds for desired mast rake. Then jib halyard tension is a matter of preference/opinion. I generally run mine pretty dang tight (mast still needs to freely rotate) except when wind is real light. You're running the jib halyard around the cheek block and up through the fiddle block to get 3:1 purchase, right. Even when the rig is very tight, the leeward shroud will seem loose once sails are loaded up.

Cam tension: Sounds about right.....doesn't take a whole lot of tension to hold rudder down. I can easily move my cams with my thumb.

Mast raising: Not uncommon with ill-fitting hinges......you're not doing anything wrong. The Hobie mast hinge has a shoulder on it that catches on the sides of the hinge slot during mast raising. At first, the hinge rotates on the bottom pin. Once the shoulder catches, the mast rotates on the upper pin and the ball goes right in the cup.

Mast base: That looks like a potentially bad accident waiting to happen. I've heard differing stories on compatibility of old/new base/step......would talk to a dealer or ask Mmiller on the Hobie forums about it. Will be a big expense and a lot of work regardless. I'd just look for a good used old-style base.

Jib halyard: See above regarding 3:1 purchase. Also, the hole in the sheave in the center of the fiddle block is probably elongated. If so, it may stop spinning once loaded a bit.

Put on harness then PFD. Helps to have a high-waisted PFD like kayakers use.

I don't think you can call it a $400 boat anymore...maybe 400 man-hour! It's about time to sail the crap out of it and see what breaks. If something minor, then good for you. If it's a hull, then be glad you didn't pour any more time or cash into it! 🙂

Edited by rattlenhum on Jun 27, 2021 - 09:07 AM.

Thanks Jerome for the answers. Quick report: just got back from the first sail. All went well. Video to follow.

First time out. Not the most awesome sailing on YouTube but a big deal for us.
https://youtu.be/GOX88EIhWDw

rattlenhum wrote:
Shroud tension: First, set shrouds for desired mast rake. Then jib halyard tension is a matter of preference/opinion. I generally run mine pretty dang tight (mast still needs to freely rotate) except when wind is real light. You're running the jib halyard around the cheek block and up through the fiddle block to get 3:1 purchase, right. Even when the rig is very tight, the leeward shroud will seem loose once sails are loaded up.

Jib halyard: See above regarding 3:1 purchase. Also, the hole in the sheave in the center of the fiddle block is probably elongated. If so, it may stop spinning once loaded a bit.

We don't really know what our desired mast rake is. But it seemed good out on the water, so we will leave the shrouds 3 up from the bottom for now. It did tighten up nicely at that setting and we are using the 3:1 with the new cheek block we riveted on. It seemed ok overall, but I'll check the jib halyard pulley.

rattlenhum wrote: Cam tension: Sounds about right.....doesn't take a whole lot of tension to hold rudder down. I can easily move my cams with my thumb.

The rudders were good. Didn't pop up until we pulled into the shallows.

rattlenhum wrote:
I don't think you can call it a $400 boat anymore...maybe 400 man-hour! It's about time to sail the crap out of it and see what breaks. If something minor, then good for you. If it's a hull, then be glad you didn't pour any more time or cash into it! 🙂

Definitely not a $400 boat anymore. I'll total up the total expenditures when I get a chance. Definitely good to have the start of sailing the crap out of it behind us!

After a couple hours of sailing, we had about 2 quarts of water in each hull. Is that a lot? I'll do the shop vac exhaust/soapy water trick and look for the leaks.

Excellent! Were those humpback whale calls I heard in the background? We had two good sailing days on our local lake this weekend, too (unusual for summer).....but no humpbacks.

Maximum rake will be determined by your mainsail condition (stretch) and mainsheet system's stack height. You want to be able to sheet in hard but not quite go block to block. With the 5:1 and an old main, you'll probably be powered up pretty good still and not want to rake any further forward than that.

When you do the bubble test, be sure to check the deck lip/seam where the decks are glued to the hulls. A bead of silicone will do that trick, or...even better...you can flip the boat and do a bead of thin epoxy. Other likely leak spots are the gudgeons and drain plug housings. (Proceed with caution on gudgeon screws....they may be seized with corrosion between SS screw and Al backing plate. Use Lanacote, anti-seize, or such when replacing.) When I've acquired older boats, I just skipped the bubble test and resealed all this easy stuff. If badly worn, the hull bottoms can leak as well. Also the foam plugs inside the pylons can leak. (There are small vent tubes in the forward ones, so bubbling there is normal.) If you capsize and the lower hull takes on a lot of water, those plugs are likely the culprit, but I wouldn't take the boat apart for the amount of water you're getting now. Less time working on boat equals more time sailing on Humpback Lake!

I think the humpback call was the starboard rudder. Maybe I need a couple of bushings?

We did have all the gudgeons and drain plug housings out. We resealed them when we put them back in.

I'm not sure I know where the foam plugs are. We did have the stern of the boat buried a bunch of times in light wind. Probably makes sense to silicone the seam as you say and save a major rebuild for later.

Thanks for the help!

FAQ on rudder hum/whale noise: http://2010.archive.hobiecat.com/support/tech/hum.htm l"> https://www.hobie.com/support/articles/archive/?src=http://2010.archive.hobiecat.com/support/tech/hum.html

Pics of pylon plug and other hull guts: https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=10731&g2_GALLERYSID=b4079d0347c461159ced83de963a2bb1

Edited by rattlenhum on Jun 29, 2021 - 08:48 AM.

Thanks Jerome! My starboard rudder has trailing edge damage. I'll sand that out first and see what happens.

We got the whole family out. I took out my wife and younger son, while my oldest went solo in the Snark Sunflower.

Three people is too much, need to get the SC17 going for the second boat. We buried a hull once and came to a stop. Low winds so no real drama, but a good learning experience.

After a bit my wife and I took the Snark, and the boys tooled around on the Hobie Cat. We did the swap on the lake.

Our latest video:
https://youtu.be/3Mew_e3mBMI

Nothing too exciting. Winds were low. Good family fun though.

I hooked up the shop vac exhaust to the drain plug. Warning, if you have a big shop vac it can be too much. The hull made some alarming noises and I turned it off. I ended up drilling four 3/8" holes in my shop vac adapter tube that I had made, to reduce the pressure getting into the hull. Here is some video of one of the pylon leaks:
https://youtu.be/nSVUYlWflG8

Hopefully I didn't destroy anything too badly. Also there were a bunch of old patches on the boat. Looks like they may have been done with plumber's putty. They all leaked. I sanded them out and glassed them over.

We may sail tomorrow afternoon, and definitely Monday. I'm hopeful there will be less water in the hulls this time.

I often see the suggestion to use a ship vac to leak test. In my opinion, that is clumsy, you need power cords, an extra hand to hold it, & it’s bloody noisy.
Go to your local Dollarama, buy a balloon pump & make yourself a test rig.
Here’s what I did, years ago.
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=118697

Edchris177,
That's a great solution. I had drilled a hole in an old drain plug and done a hands-free adaptation to the shop vac. I had a small piece of rope to hand the shop vac hose from and required no help. Still noisy and able to overpressurize the hull. I think my adapter and a balloon pump would be ideal.

Yesterday my son flew the hull on the H16 for the first time:
https://youtu.be/nwSUO2dAS-Q

Suddenly, this $400 boat has become the best investment I've made in a long time. Two brothers, 18 months apart, having fun together and not trying to kill each other. Plus my younger kid is an introvert with a weird sleep schedule and it's hard to get him out of the house.

We still had some water in the hull after the patches and sealing, but it was a lot better.

I have good news! My mast seems watertight. It floats nicely.

Ok, good news out of the way. I pitch poled. That bad noise I was worried about when I pressurized the hull - I think it was really bad after all. The port hull snapped up front from where the noises came from.

We got a tow in as close to the launch as we could, took off all the stuff, flipped the boat right side up so we could paddle it back to the launch. We tried righting it out in the lake but the hull was so heavy from the water I don't think we had a chance.

Video to follow.

My kid is still processing the GoPro video. But I've got this:
https://youtu.be/VJ3GRi3LqNU

waiex191 wrote: I have good news! My mast seems watertight. It floats nicely.

Ok, good news out of the way. I pitch poled. That bad noise I was worried about when I pressurized the hull - I think it was really bad after all. The port hull snapped up front from where the noises came from.

We got a tow in as close to the launch as we could, took off all the stuff, flipped the boat right side up so we could paddle it back to the launch. We tried righting it out in the lake but the hull was so heavy from the water I don't
think we had a chance.
Video to follow.

Damn, that’s ugly to watch. Dont beat yourself up, your overpresururization via the shop vac might have only been the final straw. It seems that deck was weak to begin with.(soft decks probably).
I would not even try to add glass Matt to that hull. Remove it, chop it up, & burn it, (they do burn nicely once lit).
Old H16’s are cheap. Look for a parts boat, (there are many that come up for less than you will spend trying to resurrect that hull, even though I know you have skills, & technical help) & use the required hull to make what’s known as a Frankenboat, or use both hulls for a match.
The H16 has more hulls than almost all other Cats combined, BUT, they are an old design, & very prone to pitchpole. Most H16 sailors, if they could, would position themselves 3’ BEHIND the rear beam. If you could lay hands on a Nacra 5.0, or it’s bigger brother, the 5.7, you find you can drive it till the front beam is underwater, spray shooting in your face, & it will recover. Despite some friends really ham fisting my 5,7, in 5’ seas, we have only managed to PP it once.
Anyway, I enjoy your posts. You have the skills & tools to fab up many parts, & you don’t seem to give damn about looks or bling, & that my friend, is a good thing.
As written by Kenneth Grahame, in the kids classic, Wind in the Willows, “Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.”