First beachcat for solo sailing.

MN3 wrote: The downhaul on the wave (like other hobies) is a simple cleat on the mast. You tie off the line to the cleat, around the sail grommet and then cleated (making this a 2:1). this is adjustable on the fly (tensioned hard for upwind, and loosened for downwind) by uncleatting and resetting - that being said it will be hard to do on the fly without crew

You again did a better job explaining my thoughts. My point was that cunningham tensioning / loosening would not be possible on the fly without crew on a Wave.

You again did a better job explaining my thoughts. My point was that cunningham tensioning / loosening would not be possible on the fly without crew on a Wave.

It is possible - but not the most convenient with the stock setup.
they sell kits to upgrade from the stock 2:1 to more purchases for easier setting
you can change out the stock cleat for a clam cleat, this would make securing it much easier
you can even run the downhaul line down the mast, to the beam, to a turning block, to each side for skipper adjustments on the fly

I have sailed beachcats for over 20 years and mostly solo
my big cats (5.5 and 6.0) are much more complex to manage than a wave (including with spinnakers) and it is all possible - but it is a lot to manage, esp for a newbie

I wouldn't worry about getting "tired of" or outgrowing a wave if that is the best boat for you, they are a fine choice - but not the highest of performance and can be easily sold when you are ready to upgrade

MN3 wrote: EDIT: "(inboard placement for a fuller sail, outboard for a flatter sail)." I think i got this backwards: - pretty sure it is inboard for a flatter sail (as this would pull the sail taught), outboard for a fuller sail (as this would pull the sail in/add curve/shape)Edited by MN3 on Nov 29, 2022 - 07:51 AM.

I figured that out.

You see, as my Sunfish has recreational sails, I have only mainsheet and tiller. I have no experience in outhaul and cunningham adjustments. I thought Wave was like that too, but now, I know that I can stop and adjust the downhaul tension on Wave when I wish to. I mean I knew it was there, but never look at it as a control line as the tension is not adjustable on the go with the standard set up. From the way I explain things, you possibly notice how much I still have to learn. Getting there, one line at a time...

So...the boomless set up will have cunningham and perhaps multiple holes on the sail leach (where the blocks are hung) to act as an outhaul. Still, I don't need to buy a Laser to figure them out; it seems to me that on the simple / beginner cats I consider, there are not many tedious adjustments - pretty straightforward process that will possible require a quick stop singlehanded. That was what I meant to say earlier - and at the time, I was not aware of half the info here either.

I will upgrade the recreational sail on my Sunfish with a race sail, which has cunningham and outhaul. I think I'll be good for now.

Thanks, man. You really helped.

Edited by sun on Nov 29, 2022 - 10:34 PM.

[quote=MN3]

they sell kits to upgrade from the stock 2:1 to more purchases for easier setting
you can change out the stock cleat for a clam cleat,

I wouldn't worry about getting "tired of" or outgrowing a wave if that is the best boat for you, they are a fine choice - but not the highest of performance and can be easily sold when you are ready to upgrade

I was just checking out a similar upgrade:

By the way, bottom link is a similar traveler to the one I was talking about earlier:
https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-wave-mainsail-traveler-kit

If I can find a used Wave, I'll have no problem with outgrowing it as I can sell it for a similar price.

To be honest, I've started to lean toward sticking with monohull dingies when solo-ing. I think I better find a like-minded crew for the catamaran fun - at least, until I have enough experience.

Edited by sun on Nov 29, 2022 - 05:14 PM.

sun wrote: [quote=MN3]EDIT: "(inboard placement for a fuller sail, outboard for a flatter sail)."

I will upgrade the recreational sail on my Sunfish with a race sail, which has cunningham and outhaul. I think I am good for now.

Thanks, man. You really helped.Edited by sun on Nov 29, 2022 - 04:12 PM.

You shouldnt need a new "race" sail for the Sunfish to upgrades you noted - the "hacks"you're taliking about can be found on Lee Montes Youtube Channel.

Sunfish is a very simple but yet very fun little boat.

Edited by JohnES on Nov 29, 2022 - 02:52 PM.

JohnES wrote: You shouldnt need a new "race" sail for the Sunfish to upgrades you noted - the "hacks"you're taliking about can be found on Lee Montes Youtube Channel.

Sunfish is a very simple but yet very fun little boat.Edited by JohnES on Nov 29, 2022 - 02:52 PM.

I think I watched all of his videos. I need to replace the sails regardless. He is drilling the boom, which I don't want to do. So...I will buy a race boom and new sails - that's the plan.

I love the Sunfish too. Thanks for the tip, man.

Edited by sun on Nov 29, 2022 - 05:34 PM.

dwk wrote: Anyway, I started on a Prindle 18 and it was a blast. Though I had to call for help a few times when I tipped it until I was able to right it solo using a waterbag. It wasn't easy but it was do-able with a struggle and I'm about 180lbs.

After having some hull soft spots, I traded it in for a H14 Turbo and that was a blast. BUT similar to you, I'm sailing Lake Huron, and these big lakes are a little overpowering for the H14T. Yeah I was going very fast and at the same time I pitchpoled it many times, forward, sideways, backwards, etc. But since that boat was so light I was able to just bring it up in seconds with no issues at all.

I am even 30 lb lighter. Well, cherish the H14T.

sun wrote: en 30 lb lighter. Well, cherish the H14T.

How about a Prindle 16? It is the same as the 18, but they can be easily rigged and sailed solo, will not pitch-pole like a Hobie 16 or 14, and they were built like tanks.

Plenty of them for sale here in the classifieds and on Craigslist.

Edited by JohnES on Nov 29, 2022 - 04:17 PM.

JohnES wrote: How about a Prindle 16?

I'll check it out. Thanks.

JohnES wrote: You shouldnt need a new "race" sail for the Sunfish to upgrades you noted - the "hacks"you're taliking about can be found on Lee Montes Youtube Channel.

Well, I watched the video again. I think I'll be comfortable drilling a couple of holes on the boom. It's gonna be a cheap upgrade after all.
:prost:

Edited by sun on Nov 29, 2022 - 11:49 PM.

sun wrote: [quote=MN3]The downhaul on the wave (like other hobies) is a simple cleat on the mast. You tie off the line to the cleat, around the sail grommet and then cleated (making this a 2:1). this is adjustable on the fly (tensioned hard for upwind, and loosened for downwind) by uncleatting and resetting - that being said it will be hard to do on the fly without crew

You again did a better job explaining my thoughts. My point was that cunningham tensioning / loosening would not be possible on the fly without crew on a Wave.

To adjust on the fly, I would recommend having a swiveling cleat on either side of the mast. On the Tornado and FrankenKitty, I have the downhauls led to the outer hull. I race FrankenKitty singlehanded and have sailed it in 30 knots of wind singlehanded and adjust the downhaul while on the trap.

It is possible, but is it worth it?

I have found that with the carbon sails and the stiff Prindle mast, the downhaul adjustment is very limited. I typically have 3 adjustments; light air wrinkles just removed, on the wire with a full arm length pulled and heavy air which is a bit more snug. There is not much shape change with these sails - we designed them that way. For everyday sailing, I'm not sure how much benefit vs hassle and extra lines on the tramp having a double ended downhaul would be.

I'm not sure how much benefit vs hassle and extra lines on the tramp having a double ended downhaul would be.

Agreed - i have seen upgraded h16's downhaul but never on a wave - probably not need - i was just saying it is certainly possible to adjust on the fly and while solo

texastuma wrote: It is possible, but is it worth it?

Not worth it.

MN3 wrote: i have seen upgraded h16's downhaul but never on a wave...

I have over a year before I move. One H14 will pop up by that time. If not, then a Wave will do just fine.

---
Thanks, everyone. It's been fun.

Just as an FYI. My local sailing center offers sailing lessons... Here is some of what they say:

As a single sailed catamaran, the Wave is perfect for introducing the theory of sailing to those who have never sailed before. Once you are ready, the next lesson on the Sunfish will emphasize how to physically balance the boat, as the basic maneuvers learned in the Wave become more challenging.

In other words, the Sunfish is harder to sail than the Wave. Also, a well sailed Laser is every bit as fast as a Wave. (The Laser's D-PN is 91.1 while the Wave's is 92.1 which means the Laser is technically faster.)

If you are looking to "level up" from your Sunfish or go faster than a Laser, then the Wave probably isn't a good choice.

Edited by danielt1263 on Dec 01, 2022 - 12:42 PM.

danielt1263 wrote: ...In other words, the Sunfish is harder to sail than the Wave. Also, a well sailed Laser is every bit as fast as a Wave. (The Laser's D-PN is 91.1 while the Wave's is 92.1 which means the Laser is technically faster.)

If you are looking to "level up" from your Sunfish or go faster than a Laser, then the Wave probably isn't a good choice.

I still think a Hobie 14T will look so good next to my Sunfish.

sun wrote: I still think a Hobie 14T will look so good next to my Sunfish.

And the Hobie 14 is quite a bit faster than the Wave.

In other words, the Sunfish is harder to sail than the Wave. Also, a well sailed Laser is every bit as fast as a Wave. (The Laser's D-PN is 91.1 while the Wave's is 92.1 which means the Laser is technically faster.)

Meh - a sunfish is a very different boat and is MUCH more weight sensitive (will rock a lot easier since it is a single hull vs 2 hulls that are a few feet away from eachothere - that is why it will teach you weight distribution) - that doesn't make it harder to sail - I would say it is much easier to handle, learn on, and depower if hit with a gust (just let go of the mainsheet and the sail will blow directly downwind - de powering it almost completely / immediately, where a catamaran sail will hit the side-stays and still "show it's face to the wind" in many points of sail

they teach little kids on optis (small single sail dingies that look like bathtubs) - the sunfish is pretty similar boat besides shaped differently

Catamarans are harder to tack due to the fact you have to push the leaward hull around the windward hull

The Laser is a fiberglass olympic class racing dingy - the wave is a plastic (rotomolded) beginner catamaran (although can be enjoyed by any age/skill)

saying a laser is faster is true but apples to oranges

MN3 wrote: The Laser is a fiberglass olympic class racing dingy - the wave is a plastic (rotomolded) beginner catamaran (although can be enjoyed by any age/skill)

saying a laser is faster is true but apples to oranges

I only mention it because sun said earlier, "I wanna smoke all the Lasers!" I just wanted to warn that on a Wave, there won't be a lot of Laser smoking. 🙂

danielt1263 wrote: I only mention it because sun said earlier, "I wanna smoke all the Lasers!" I just wanted to warn that on a Wave, there won't be a lot of Laser smoking. 🙂

:prost:

I have over a year before I move. One H14 will pop up by that time. If not, then a Wave will do just fine.

Here's one in Ocean City https://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/d/somers-point-1983-hobie-14-turbo/7557401558.html .

And the last few season there's been one for sale around Traverse City, MI.

Or have you thought about an A-cat,those are lighter and can be lots of fun too. On the classified there's a Taipan 4.9 which has the same weight as the Hobie 14 and much newer model.

Edited by dwk on Dec 02, 2022 - 01:14 PM.

Taipan 4.9 which has the same weight as the Hobie 14 and much newer model.

problem with these cat's is there is no N.American support and parts would be hard to come by - and if found would be shipped from Down Under (unless you get very lucky and someone in N. America has spare parts)

MN3 wrote:

In other words, the Sunfish is harder to sail than the Wave. Also, a well sailed Laser is every bit as fast as a Wave. (The Laser's D-PN is 91.1 while the Wave's is 92.1 which means the Laser is technically faster.)

they teach little kids on optis (small single sail dingies that look like bathtubs) - the sunfish is pretty similar boat besides shaped differently

This is the most optics I’ve ever seen in one place….Manly Beach, Australia
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=126724&g2_imageViewsIndex=1&g2_GALLERYSID=0602dffeffd79bb4439d4424d6913c6c

This is the most optics I’ve ever seen in one place….Manly Beach, Australia

Invented in Dunedin, fl .... the outline for the original plans are still on the factory floor (now the woodwright brewing company

https://woodwrightbrewing.com/the-history/

now available in a foiling dingy. 🙂

Edited by MN3 on Dec 02, 2022 - 08:41 PM.

dwk wrote:

I have over a year before I move. One H14 will pop up by that time. If not, then a Wave will do just fine.

Here's one in Ocean City https://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/d/somers-point-1983-hobie-14-turbo/7557401558.html .

And the last few season there's been one for sale around Traverse City, MI.

Or have you thought about an A-cat,those are lighter and can be lots of fun too. On the classified there's a Taipan 4.9 which has the same weight as the Hobie 14 and much newer model.Edited by dwk on Dec 02, 2022 - 01:14 PM.

Ocean City is such a great venue for sailing. And there is a H14 for sale there. Lucky people. I need to find an H14 just like that. It looks as if it is in good condition.

I thought about Acats.

Edited by sun on Dec 03, 2022 - 02:07 PM.

MN3 wrote:

Taipan 4.9 which has the same weight as the Hobie 14 and much newer model.

problem with these cat's is there is no N.American support and parts would be hard to come by - and if found would be shipped from Down Under (unless you get very lucky and someone in N. America has spare parts)

Also they seem to be advanced for my current skills.

If you have your heart set on a H14, contact Jason Sanchez in St Pete, FL. I believe he has 3-4 good ones for sale at this time.

wxguy wrote: If you have your heart set on a H14, contact Jason Sanchez in St Pete, FL. I believe he has 3-4 good ones for sale at this time.

I will. Thank you.

MN3 wrote:
Meh - a sunfish is a very different boat and is MUCH more weight sensitive

A Sunfish has a hard chine which gives it some stability - not as much as a catamaran, but all the same, and you really have to rock it to get it to tip

Also they seem to be advanced for my current skills.

Meh, you can dummy it down (and flip often) - till you learn to stop (and what u did wrong)
you learn from your mistakes - and sailing with good sailers

my first cat was a H16 - didn't have a clue
then a h18 and met the local cat sailers - found a clew
got my 5.5 (same rigging as a a modern tipan 4.9)
I put 2 and 2 together and "got it" (upwind)

understanding downwind sailing was a whole new skillset

Nothing wrong starting and learning on 90's sail plan - esp if you have basic sailing skills to start with

-

I would not touch a H14, or for that matter an H16 as an adult or especially large adult. Lots of better choices.