First beachcat for solo sailing.

The first question is, why do you want to sail a Hobie 16?

The Hobie 16 can be sailed solo'd, just dont go out in conditions that a newbie shouldn't be going out in. One advantage of the H16, is the popularity and availability.

I don't see the point in getting a simpler boat than the H16 and then upgrading later, the H16 isnt a bad boat to start with.

Find a local club that has a beach cat fleet and have a chat, I'm sure their will be opportunities to crew etc they also generally go out together and with a support vessel.

Edited by johnoau on Nov 24, 2022 - 05:12 PM.

H16 as a first? Certainly many have, successfully. Heck, I started with a H21, about as far from a starter boat as you can get, but I had/have help. It's too big for many beginner mistakes, but none of the boats you're considering are very tolerant to beginner abuse. What you will find is that if you start simple/slow you'll likely get bored wanting more performance pretty quick. It's that much fun, even if you're not competing.

I'd get a boat with a jib, to make tacking easier and a little more performance. Find out where folks are sailing and get some initial help, especially on-water coaching.

Thanks guys. I am a little worried of rightning the Hobie 16. I'll possibly need to start at calmer weather and buy a cat righting bag. I saw a couple of 16s that were simplified for rental use. Both had bulb floaters on the top of their masts. I assume I can benefit from those floaters too.

If you're sailing primarily solo, I'd be considering a H14 Turbo, Nacra 4.5/450, or similar, a little bit easier to manage on your own, but it all depends on why you want to the H16.

johnoau wrote: If you're sailing primarily solo, I'd be considering a H14 Turbo, Nacra 4.5/450, or similar, a little bit easier to manage on your own, but it all depends on why you want to the H16.

H14 Turbo had always been top on my list. The problem is I haven't come across a well maintained one - yet. H16 is still in production, plenty out there. I will check out Nacra 4.5 / 150. I was also considering 160 and 500, but I will go with an H16 if it comes to that. I would take an H14 Turbo over an H16 anyday.

charlescarlis wrote: none of the boats you're considering are very tolerant to beginner abuse.

I thought Wave was very tolerant to beginner abuse. But yeah I would rather have H14/16 instead - if I can handle.

Edited by sun on Nov 25, 2022 - 02:24 AM.

Hobie WAVE. Learn to sail then look for a cat with more horsepower.

Check out this vide. Lot's of helpful info.
How to choose a beginner catamaran

My first catamaran was through a membership in a local sailing center with Hobie Waves. I've been a member there for over 20 years. A Wave can keep you happy for a long time!

Edited by danielt1263 on Nov 25, 2022 - 02:11 PM.

sun wrote: [quote=charlescarlis]none of the boats you're considering are very tolerant to beginner abuse.

I thought Wave was very tolerant to beginner abuse. But yeah I would rather have H14/16 instead - if I can handle.Edited by sun on Nov 25, 2022 - 02:24 AM.

Charlie was wrong. The Wave is a very tough boat, a main reason why you see so many of them at resorts, where they get abused in every possible way.

Edited by Edchris177 on Nov 26, 2022 - 05:48 AM.

Yeah, I wrote that wrong... I meant that ALL THE BOATS he was considering are tolerant to abuse-good choices, but I still wouldn't get a wave because of no jib...

Wave seems to be a fun one to learn on. Though, just the tiller and one line to deal with, I won't gain experience with cunningham, traveller, and outhaul system.

I'll confess...I've sailed Wave's quite a few times... (kind of like riding a moped;they're fun, but you're too embarrassed to tell your friends your riding one). There's also a big one design racing group, so you do have that in the future. You really can't go wrong with your choices, but be prepared to buy another, eventually. The Wave's do have a good resell ability as well, due to name recognition, etc.

No matter which way you go, it's fun and you'll love it.

charlescarlis wrote: Yeah, I wrote that wrong... I meant that ALL THE BOATS he was considering are tolerant to abuse-good choices, but I still wouldn't get a wave because of no jib...

I agree with all that.
If you are reasonably athletic, I would skip the Wave. Get a righting bag, sail in moderate conditions til you get more comfortable.
The Nacra 4.5 would be great. Not sure where you are, but Mystere also made a similar sized Cat. There was a good fleet of them in the central Midwest.
They might not be common, but a Dart 15 would be ideal. I keep one for high wind, (20+), days. They’re still being made, (England), parts are available. Easily rigged & righted.
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=128351

As Charlie said above, grab one & sail it. I wouldn’t get hung up on a particular model, buy the one in the BEST condition. Few things are as expensive as a free boat. Starting out, with little experience, especially if you have reefs and/or shallows, a boom less, boardless setup would be ideal. My 1st Cat was a Nacra 5.7, it’s still the boat I would keep if I could only have one Cat, though it’s not ideal if you want to race one design, as there are not fleet sizes of say an H16, or H18.

Edited by Edchris177 on Nov 26, 2022 - 06:20 AM.

sun wrote: Thanks guys. I am a little worried of rightning the Hobie 16. I'll possibly need to start at calmer weather and buy a cat righting bag. I saw a couple of 16s that were simplified for rental use. Both had bulb floaters on the top of their masts. I assume I can benefit from those floaters too.

I’m a little less than your weight and you should absolutely ensure you can right any boat you’re considering before you buy it. While there’s lots of traffic in St Joesphs sound, you can easily be a half mile offshore and several miles from your launch point. I would never sail a boat that I wasn’t sure exactly how I’d right.

Thanks again, everyone. I've watched some YT videos, and I think I cannot right an H16 solo - at least, at this stage. H16 will be my future goal.
A boomless cat set up would be better. Skeg hull would be a good idea too as advised.
Wave comes with one line to handle out of factory. I hope the new Waves don't need any drilling to install a jib, in case I want to upgrade at some point.Topaz 14c might be a better option though, same weight with Wave but more sail area.
To be honest, I cannot decide. I think this calls for a vacation to a venue, where I can rent Waves, 16s, and such.

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 01:21 AM.

johnoau wrote: ... but it all depends on why you want to the H16.

Speed. I wanna smoke all the Lasers! 🙂

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 10:37 AM.

There is a Taipan 4.9 for sale on this site. Start out Uni rigged and work up to all three sails. Don't let the boards scare you.

dssaak wrote: There is a Taipan 4.9 for sale on this site. Start out Uni rigged and work up to all three sails. Don't let the boards scare you.

I had a Taipan 4.9 (rigged as an F-16 and sailed uni.) I'm 150 lbs. Every sail was a nail biting adventure and it was almost impossible for me to right. This severely limited my sailing time. I don't recommend it as a first boat.

Many years ago, I started on a Hobie 14 weighing a bit less than 150lbs. I wouldn't say every sail was a nail biting adventure but it sure was exciting. It was exciting mainly because I had never sailed before. But I read the manual that came with it, got out on the water as much as I could and it wasn't long before I wasn't flipping it everytime I went out. If I had known other cat sailors, I am sure it wouldn't have taken as long.

Funny thing is, many years later I was still flippng my cats albeit less frequently. Not because I didn't know how to sail but because I enjoyed sailing at that ragged edge. At my age, those days are over now but it was fun then. My point is, don't let any boat scare you (well may be a couple of the bigger boats) if you have the right mindset (and carrying a water bag to add extra weight when righting the boat).

I'll be moving by Lake Michigan in a year or year-and-a-half. I want to get into cat sailing as soon as I'm there. Currently, I am doing okay with my Sunfish, ideal for the current venue. I just wish I had gotten the race version; I might do some upgrades on her sails.

I almost bought a beaten Laser yesterday but then passed. I wanted it as I lack the experience in utilizing cunningham, traveller, outhaul system, and etc... However, after talking with you folks, I realized I might not even have to get into those features ever as it looks like my first cat possibly won't have a boom - Perhaps a cunnigham and a traveller for the mast.

I'm always on the market for used deals. As many new sailboats require ordering months in advance nowadays, I've started the market search for new boats a little too early. I don't think some boats on my list can even be ordered anymore.

I will test ride the Wave for a few times and make a decision based on that experience. Meanwhile, if I find an H14 in good condition, that will put an end to the search of course, regardless her boom.

I like the Wave, but I think I'll outgrow her fast, just like how I've outgrown my Sunfish.

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 02:03 PM.

those features ever as it looks like my first cat possibly won't have a boom - Perhaps a cunnigham and a traveller for the mast.

Every cat i have seen has a downhaul (cunningham), even though the hobie 16's have a very lackluster one and not sure what a traveler "for the mast is", but if you mean a traveler on the boom (Outhaul), - boomless boats (typically) have multiple holes on the sail leach (where the blocks are hung) to act as an outhaul (inboard placement for a fuller sail, outboard for a flatter sail). the disadvantage with that setup is the inability to modify this on the fly (typically flat for upwind and full for downwind)

SOME (very few) boomless cats have a small track built into the sail to create an outhaul -

Downhaul and outhaul (and traveler) setting are used to power up or down the sails

EDIT: "(inboard placement for a fuller sail, outboard for a flatter sail)." I think i got this backwards: - pretty sure it is inboard for a flatter sail (as this would pull the sail taught), outboard for a fuller sail (as this would pull the sail in/add curve/shape)

Edited by MN3 on Nov 29, 2022 - 07:51 AM.

sun wrote: I'll be moving by Lake Michigan in a year or year-and-a-half. I want to get into cat sailing as soon as I'm there. Currently, I am doing okay with my Sunfish, ideal for the current venue. I just wish I had gotten the race version; I might do some upgrades on her sails.

I almost bought a beaten Laser yesterday but then passed. I wanted it as I lack the experience in utilizing cunningham, traveller, outhaul system, and etc... However, after talking with you folks, I realized I might not even have to get into those features ever as it looks like my first cat possibly won't have a boom - Perhaps a cunnigham and a traveller for the mast.

I'm always on the market for used deals. As many new sailboats require ordering months in advance nowadays, I've started the market search for new boats a little too early. I don't think some boats on my list can even be ordered anymore.

I will test ride the Wave for a few times and make a decision based on that experience. Meanwhile, if I find an H14 in good condition, that will put an end to the search of course, regardless her boom.

I like the Wave, but I think I'll outgrow her fast, just like how I've outgrown my Sunfish.Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 02:03 PM.

Your weight, I believe, is the first consideration. You can make the boat set-up as simple or complicated as you wish. I think the Wave could be a good contender for starting out. Once you get comfortable with experience, jump up to something with more horsepower (which does add to rigging and derigging times and "junk on the tramp"). Maybe consider a Hobie 17? You can add a jib down the road, or keep it as-is. It really depends on what you are going to do with the boat and what "features" you would like. I have raced a few of boomless boats (Nacra 5.8, Nacra 5.0, Nacra 6.0) and they have pros and cons. I am toying with setting up my modified Prindle 18-2 with a boomless main for cruising and farting around.

MN3 wrote:

those features ever as it looks like my first cat possibly won't have a boom - Perhaps a cunnigham and a traveller for the mast.

Every cat i have seen has a downhaul (cunningham), even though the hobie 16's have a very lackluster one and not sure what a traveler "for the mast is", but if you mean a traveler on the boom (Outhaul), - boomless boats (typically) have multiple holes on the sail leach (where the blocks are hung) to act as an outhaul (inboard placement for a fuller sail, outboard for a flatter sail). the disadvantage with that setup is the inability to modify this on the fly (typically flat for upwind and full for downwind)

SOME (very few) boomless cats have a small track built into the sail to create an outhaul -

Downhaul and outhaul (and traveler) setting are used to power up or down the sailsEdited by MN3 on Nov 28, 2022 - 02:53 PM.

You explained what I meant to say way better than I had. For example, with the Wave, there is only downhaul line and mainsheet. But the downhaul line is for only tensioning while setting up.

I meant this with the traveller:
https://youtu.be/iGfkioJwm0M

You mean the holes at the clew?

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 04:03 PM.

There isn't a whole lot of bouancy in those H14 hulls.

texastuma wrote: Maybe consider a Hobie 17?

Hobie 17 is a nice one too.

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 04:13 PM.

I'd be trying to think a bit longer term, if you're going to be sailing with a club at Lake Michigan, see if you can suss out what the majority sail, and work from there. It's far more enjoyable to sail something similar to the other members and at least being socially competitive without having to be over the top competitive. I know I wouldn't enjoy sailing as much a Hobie wave in a fleet of H14/16/Nacra 450's etc, similarly for sailing a H14 in a fleet of A Class and Taipans.

I think you'll out grow the Hobie Wave quickly.

johnoau wrote: I'd be trying to think a bit longer term, if you're going to be sailing with a club at Lake Michigan, see if you can suss out what the majority sail, and work from there. It's far more enjoyable to sail something similar to the other members and at least being socially competitive without having to be over the top competitive. I know I wouldn't enjoy sailing as much a Hobie wave in a fleet of H14/16/Nacra 450's etc, similarly for sailing a H14 in a fleet of A Class and Taipans.

I think you'll out grow the Hobie Wave quickly.

Good point.

I'll take a vacation there this summer, see the fleets around, and test whatever they have as rentals. I think I started the search a little too early. For now, I'll go back to my Sunfish and upgrade the sails.

I'll be back. 😉

Edited by sun on Nov 28, 2022 - 09:33 PM.

Hi "sun", I was in your shoes and was looking for cats in the 14 ranges such as RS, Topaz, etc. Yes the H16 are easily accessible but a friend of mine had to be rescued with hypothermia because he tipped and couldn't get it back up too. It's a real risk on the great lakes.
Anyway, I started on a Prindle 18 and it was a blast. Though I had to call for help a few times when I tipped it until I was able to right it solo using a waterbag. It wasn't easy but it was do-able with a struggle and I'm about 180lbs.

After having some hull soft spots, I traded it in for a H14 Turbo and that was a blast. BUT similar to you, I'm sailing Lake Huron, and these big lakes are a little overpowering for the H14T. Yeah I was going very fast and at the same time I pitchpoled it many times, forward, sideways, backwards, etc. But since that boat was so light I was able to just bring it up in seconds with no issues at all.
This summer I sailed a few boomless 15 footers Hobie Playcat, Nacra in Europe and really like them but aren't able to buy them in the States. I really like the boomless feature.

So I was checking out new RS, Topaz, Nacra, etc. but was able to find a Nacra F16 which is very stable and buoyancy. However, I did flip it once and wasn't able to right it solo. This is a very concern of mine as well.

Since you didn't mention where you going to sail Lake Michigan, check out the Catamaran Sailing Association of Michigan and Wisconsin, CRAM https://cramsailing.com/ or CRAW https://crawracing.org/. This is a very nice group of sailors and always would welcome you if you want to crew and learn at the same time. This might give you a good idea on what you want.

You explained what I meant to say way better than I had. For example, with the Wave, there is only downhaul line and mainsheet. But the downhaul line is for only tensioning while setting up.

The downhaul on the wave (like other hobies) is a simple cleat on the mast. You tie off the line to the cleat, around the sail grommet and then cleated (making this a 2:1). this is adjustable on the fly (tensioned hard for upwind, and loosened for downwind) by uncleatting and resetting - that being said it will be hard to do on the fly without crew

page 21 - https://media.hobie.com/digital_assets/Hobie_Wave_Manual_2020.pdf

Edited by MN3 on Nov 29, 2022 - 10:29 AM.