Beachcats for big people, a solicitation for advice

lonbordin wrote: Ok... so fractional ownership (1/2 interest) anyone ever do this? I've been offered such on the H20.

Run, don't walk, away from that deal.

I've known best friends who crewed together for years have a major falling out over joint boat ownership. Can't imagine it working out with a stranger, to many chances for differing opinions on when and what to do with the boat and what to spend on it.

also, how would you price such a thing? Used Hobie 20's aren't really going for good prices now because they were the hotrod ride of the top sailors just before the spinnaker boats took over. You have better options.

Wolfman/erice/damonAdmin-

I will be passing on the H20. Thank you all for the sage advice. I had my doubts and your advice bolstered them.

Back to the hunt.

Query: of all the big cats suitable for me which do you think has the best light air, less than 10k, performance?

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 12, 2010 - 08:55 PM

I know that the supercat 20, with the 12' beams is easily managed. It was one of the largest singlehanded boats to ever sail in round texel.

P18 are always nice as well.

Yes, my understanding is that the Prindles are generally good performers and good in light air due to their high hull volume. All the big cats tend to be pretty good in light conditions though. Look for boats a large deck sweeping jib for improved light air performance too.

After all the discussion it sounds like the Prindle 19, Nacra 5.8 and Miracle 20 (sorry) would be particularly good choices for you. Just be aware that ALL three are beasts to sail in heavy winds and very very fast (sounds like what you want).

That being said I don't think I would pass up any of the boats made by those three manufacturers in the 18-20 ft market if they are in good condition and the price is right.

Query: of all the big cats suitable for me which do you think has the best light air, less than 10k, performance?

I think a SC20 would be a good boat for you in the above mentioned conditions. Solo they are a blast in 10k wind, above that you need extra crew, even with the 12' beam. But if you plan to do a lot of solo sailing probably something a little smaller is better. It is heavier then some but has lots of power. Older design but a fun and wet ride. I wouldn't recommend a SC20 to most people due to setup time, but if you can leave mast up it is a fun boat to sail. Might also have trouble with beachwheels however, rolling it up the beach is hard.

I've been doing a spreadsheet of cats so that I can make an informed choice.

There is some monohulls in the list just for comparison purposes. Sorted by weight then Portsmouth value.
If I think the H20 is a beast at 420... the SC20 is a giant at 465. I have the ability to store mast up, though.

Anyone got a Taipan 5.7?! 😀

.
CLASS NAPY D-PN Weight

.
RS 700 spi RS700 73.3 120

.
A Class Cat AC 64.5 150

.
A Class Cat >200# allup AC2 70.5 150

.
49er (Int.) 49 68.2 164

.
Taipan 4.9 Slp no spi T4.9 68.2 231

.
Taipan 4.9 Uni 1up no sp T4.9U 69.5 231

.
Formula 16 spi F16 63 235

.
Taipan 5.7 Sloop w/spi T5.7 60.7 270

.
Nacra 17 Uni no spi N17 73.2 275

.
Mystere 5.0 1Trap M5.0 75.6 300

.
Mystere 5.0 XL 2up M5.0XL 75.6 300

.
GCat 5.0Turbo1up rchr G5.03 72.2 325

.
SuperCat 17 SC17 73.9 325

.
Nacra 18 Slp spi (NI18) N18 64.6 330

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Sol Cat 18 SOL18 74.9 330

.
Hobie Tiger ODR spi HTIG 62.1 340

.
Tornado 1trap no spi TORN2 63.9 340

.
Nacra 5.5 Slp 8.5' N5.5 67 340

.
Hobie FXOne spi 1up HFX1 S 68.5 340

.
Nacra 5.5 Uni 8.5' N5.5U 69.7 340

.
Hobie FXOne jib n/s HFX1T 70.1 340

.
Hobie 17 (1up) H17 74 340

.
Hobie 17 Sport Slp 2up H17P 74.5 340

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Hobie 16 H16 76 340

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Nacra F17 Uni spi NF17 66.7 343

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Trac 18 TRC18 67.5 349

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Nacra 5.2 Slp 2up N5.2 72.1 350

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Prindle 18 P18 74.8 350

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Dart 20 Slp 2up D20 72.5 353

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Nacra 570 2up N570 70.5 360

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Nacra 5.7 2up N5.7 72.6 360

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Prindle 18-2 P182 69.1 365

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Prindle 19MX no spi P19MX 64.4 375

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Prindle 19 P19 66.4 375

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SuperCat 19X & 19XL SC19X 66.5 375

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18m2 (Cat.2 incl 11' N5.5) 18SM2 67.2 375

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SuperCat 19 SC19 69 375

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Nacra 5.8 No.Amer. 2up N5.8NA 66.5 390

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Nacra 5.8 Orig. 2up N5.8 66.6 390

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GCat 5.7m G5.7 73.2 390

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Formula 18 Slp spi F18 62.4 396

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Mystere 5.5 XL 1up M5.5XL 64.2 400

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Mystere 5.5 Slp M5.5 66.2 400

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Hobie 18 Formula H18F 71.2 400

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Hobie 18 & 18 Magnum H18 71.4 400

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Hobie Fox spi HFOX 60.4 419

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Hobie 20 Miracle H20 65 420

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Hobie SX18 spi H18SX 71.3 420

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Mystere 6.0 M6.0 63.9 425

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Mystere 6.0XL & w/wing M6.0XL 64.2 430

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SuperCat 20 TallRig n/s SC20H 63.8 465

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SuperCat 20 33' mast n/s SC20 65 465

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Nacra 6.0 350sf spi N6.0NE 60.4 472

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Nacra 6.0 No.Amer. 2up N6.0NA 62.6 472

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Nacra 6.0 Orig. 2up N6.0 64.2 472

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Hobie 21 no spi H21 67 475

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Sol Cat 20 SOL20 70 475

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Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser H21P 74.5 475

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Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) BCN 86.9 525

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 13, 2010 - 08:41 PM

Oh man, I only wish we could get some of those Aussie boats out here. A few make it over but not nearly enough.

Taipan 5.7. Here's one.
http://new-england-catamarans.com/hot.html

IMHO you're working/thinking to hard at this.

go buy a hobie or a prindle or the Taipan and get sailing already!

get a smaller one you can right until you are confidant with a bigger one. keep crew to a min until you have a cat that can handle them (or only take crew on heavy air days).

this sat i helped a capsized h16 with about 500 (or more) weight on it. they sailed ok in 18mph wind

andrewscott wrote: IMHO you're working/thinking to hard at this.

go buy a hobie or a prindle or the Taipan and get sailing already!

get a smaller one you can right until you are confidant with a bigger one. keep crew to a min until you have a cat that can handle them (or only take crew on heavy air days).

this sat i helped a capsized h16 with about 500 (or more) weight on it. they sailed ok in 18mph wind

I humbly disagree. 🙂
I am sailing ... sailed Friday on the H20 and Sat & Sun on the Buccaneer.
I also live in a catamaran light zone of the USA. If I was living in your area (I was born and lived until 20 in St.Pete) it would be a lot easier.

As example in thebeachcats.com for sale forum the nearest cat is 130 miles away with the next nearest cat being 210 miles away, etc.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 14, 2010 - 10:33 AM

lonbordin wrote:
I humbly disagree. 🙂
I am sailing ... sailed Friday on the H20 and Sat & Sun on the Buccaneer.

the nearest cat is 130 miles away with the next nearest cat being 210 miles away, etc.

I guess i am a bit spoiled with the abundance of boats around..

ok, fine ... carry on~! :~p

Your not in a total beachcat vacuum. I did a 30 second search of Indianapolis craigs list and saw 2 H18's and some H16's. May not be South Florida but they are out there. Ebay showed one H18 less then 100 miles from Bloomington also.

Finding a Taipan in your area might be harder, but there are boats around.

I hate to give away any searching for cats edge 😉 but
craiglook.com is much better than using Craigslist's native search.

I'm really looking at cats under 375lbs (170kg) and over 16'.

Yes, I would like a Tornado thank you very much. 😀

My short list (caviar dreams and such):

CLASS D-PN Weight

Taipan 5.7 60.7 270

Nacra 18 64.6 330

Hobie Tiger 62.1 340

Tornado 63.9 340

Hobie FXOne 68.5 340

Nacra 5.5 69.7 340

Trac 18 67.5 349

Nacra 5.2 72.1 350

Nacra 570 70.5 360

Nacra 5.7 72.6 360

Prindle 18-2 69.1 365

Prindle 19 66.4 375

18m2 67.2 375

SuperCat 19 69 375

😆

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 14, 2010 - 02:33 PM

And what is your price range? Looks like that is a very broad list of boats (and prices). For example a Tornado or Tiger vs. a Nacra 5.2.

BTW I think a H16 is really closer to 16.5 feet long. 😉

smfinley wrote: And what is your price range? Looks like that is a very broad list of boats (and prices). For example a Tornado or Tiger vs. a Nacra 5.2.

BTW I think a H16 is really closer to 16.5 feet long. 😉

Yeah, some of the boats are not in my range therefore the caviar dreams statement.

Good eye the 5.2 is the "smallest" boat of the group...

The H16 may be 16' 7" in length but it is remiss in volume. 😀 I'm hoping to do better!

Hobie tiger is F18. Min weight 398.

Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....

edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

from that list

imho

nacra 5.5sl, if you can find one

nacra 5.2 if you are on a budget

Dude,

You are all over the place with this and yes, you have over thought it. You want something cheap but you haven't given us your budget, you want a boat under 375#, fast, light air performer, crew weights of 515# but sail it solo, you weigh 245#, solo right it, simple, not complex, ying, yang, beach it on 20 mm rip rap, blah, blah, blah. It don't exist. You've gotten some great advice but you continue to add conditions, criteria.

Here is a valuable source for ya.
http://www.searchtempest.com/
It will aggregate craigslist and ebay.
Put in the parameters you like, i.e. price, distance, etc. and BOOM! Bob's your Uncle!

Lonbordin,
Face it, you a big boy, get a big boy boat. 5.8, 6.0, P19, N20, H20, SC, or Tornado. I would also recommend a H18, which is a tank (I can't believe i just did that, . . . nope, I change my mind, don't get the H18, Nacra's rule, and I need a rummie). What ever your budget is, allow $1000 to have it shipped to ya, or go get it. If any of these boats are too complex for ya buy a roto-molded Wave and be done with it.

The absolute best source to find a beachcat is right here in the classifieds, after that its catsailor. And yes you can solo right most of these boats in wind, which is usually the cause of the capsize. Of all the boats listed I find the N20 is the easiest to right solo.

3 questions: You said earlier you grew up sailing multis. . . Which ones? Have you tried to find a local or near local fleet that might be a resource for a boat, other than the H20 at your sailing association? What is your name? . . . Oh, and by the way, welcome to thebeachcats.com! 🙂

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too 🙂

smfinley wrote: Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too 🙂

smfinley wrote: Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

Heck I would be 1/3 owner of an N F20 Carbon!

Philip, I mostly agree. Not the way I would have put it, but I agree with the thought. You can really overthink these things. I also understand it, I went through the same thing buying my boat (not many boats available locally besides H16s and 14s and very few multis still on the water).

To be honest I'm 220 lbs and my wife is about the same and we are VERY happy with the performance of the Nacra 5.2. The only problem is that the tramp is a little crowded, but the performance is great and it is an awesome singlehanded boat. So don't discount the 17 footer even though its a little small, if you can get one it will work well for you (and Yes Nacras do rule).

The Taipan ain't happening without importing it for some serious cash, there just aren't any around. Kind of like the N5.7 I wanted but couldn't find within 8 hours drive of me so I got the N5.2.

One mistake I did make when I was looking was not being hooked in here and on Catsailor. What I didn't know then is that you can likely find a reputable person on here who is willing to help you ship the cat. There are a couple of services people use for that, where someone is driving your way and are willing to trailor the cat for a reasonable price. Something to look into, maybe pbegle can help set you up with a Tornado (sounds like he has a few)!!

Doesn't hurt to contact some of the people and find out if you can swing something.

D.

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too 🙂

That was a fairly safe guess Andrew. I know a great place to store it in the summer. Maybe it could spend the winters in Florida if you want to go in on it also. 😆

i got $100, i am in
we can keep it in my yard, i will even pay for the beach parking permit

lonbordin wrote: One of the biggest issues is that I seem to be 1,500 miles (2414 km) from all the cats. sigh...

I didn't really think about it until I read this post, so it got me thinking . . . .
Whatta ya know, my last 3 boats came from:
New England (1300 miles)
Key West (1000 miles)
St. Louis (800 miles)

Where the heck do you sail in St. Louis!?

I was referring to where the boats came from, as in where they were purchased. Plenty of good fleet there, though.

Lon,

Since you aren't going to find a boat that fits all of your criteria, when you determine which of your criteria you can live without, let us know what boat you end up with.

Today I cleaned up from the tornadic activity that passed through here last night. A big tree from my neighbors fell taking out a big tree in my yard and taking out my fence on two sides. Some of my cat budget had to be spent to fix things today, bummer.

I'm completely aware that there isn't a perfect beach cat. But I reject the idea that researching and discussing the options is a mistake. Ignorance is not my friend nor should it be yours.

I think my list I posted fits my wants and those are the boats I'll be looking for...

I think Craiglook has all the features you trumpet for searchtempest.

Scott (smfinley) I'll continue to post my thoughts as I search for a cat... if you don't like it you don't have to read it. 😛

I've sailed Hobie, Prindle, Venture, Stilettos.
There are no "local" fleets....

Crap another tornado warning... gotta go

I think my list I posted fits my wants and those are the boats I'll be looking for...

Until you narrow your criteria no advise will be good advise since the boat you want doesn't exist, especially not "cheap".

I am just pointing out that you are asking for recommendations on what cat is best but are looking all over the spectrum. Also some of your data might be wrong (Tiger weight etc.) which could impact your decision.