Beachcats for big people, a solicitation for advice

-Can be sailed solo by myself and can be righted by myself.

Get a righting bag, and you should be able to self right most cats

-Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

Get beach wheels or else!!! 🙂 , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete

-Is able to take full crew weight and move (flying a hull is NOT required... being able to go is.)

most 18's and up should fit this

First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).

Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)

Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?

The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.

As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.

andrewscott wrote:

-Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

Get beach wheels or else!!! 🙂 , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete

I should have been more explicit. I need to be able to hop off... rest the cat on the "beach" and go grab some beach wheels. I've noticed that the few modern cats at my place won't even let their boats touch land and have people standing by to assist... I won't have that luxury.

Thanks!

damonAdmin wrote: First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).

Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)

Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?

The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.

As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.

I wish I could lose weight but that would be loss of muscle mass and that's something I'm not willing to do. 😎

I do have mast up storage available so it's raise the sails and go! The quicker the setup the happier I'll be.

Not rip rap on the beach... more like this.

Your sacrificial comment got me thinking maybe I can get some sand dumped on the beach... hmmm.

Yeah I know the weight range is ridiculous and I should have said I would like the efficiency to lean more my way as solo than with crew.

Thanks!

you can carry an anchor, or leave one ready in the water (with a float) so it shouldn't be a bid deal.

people who have new, shiny or serious racers are extremely careful about touching sand/dirt/rocks/explosives but most cats can handle some contact. i have gaskets on my cat and if your on a beach and turn the cat, you will strip off the gasket.

it sounds like you will need a 18-20' cat to handle the weight. the boats you mentioned seem appropriate to me

I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.

I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.

Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.

Check out the buyers guide here:
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx

Regards,
Dave

Wolfman wrote: Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.

Check out the buyers guide here:
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx

Regards,
Dave

You'll note I included the Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide as a resource in my original post... that's a exceptional resource.

You think the Prindle 18/18-2 have enough float?

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:10 PM

smfinley wrote: I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.

I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.

I've never sailed a cat with wings before... I should try that. Thanks!

As a side note one of the things I'll miss about the Buccaneer is their active class and the amount of information that provides. They answer questions I didn't even think to ask!!!

I haven't found this in the Prindle... any resources I should look at??

PS- I don't race class and don't care about class rules... SPEED RULES. 👿

edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:05 PM

i think just about any 18 has enough (except a dart) hull volume for you and your son

h18 with wings are nice, but heavy (450 ish), and mine (no wings) had soooo much wobble in the hulls...

mystere made a 6.0 with wings (XL) that would def be a good one for you, but self righting can be a bit tricky (even with a bag)

Ooops, I should read more carefully. But then lots of people on here would agree.

My understanding is the Prindle 18 has lots of hull volume. Overall I don't think I have ever heard of anyone not liking that cat. But I haven't sailed one myself.

The fact that they aren't made anymore is a bit of a detriment, but fortunately they are well supported and most parts are still being made and available.

There is quite a bit of good info on them in the archived forum and in the technical help on this site. If you have a question normally you can get a reasonable answer (and a couple of unreasonable ones) relatively quickly here or on catsailor.com.

The really active classes in your size range are the F18s and F/N20 classes. Unfortunately these tend to be expensive boats and essentially impossible to solo (for most rec sailors anyway, I'm sure a few guys on here could handle one).

Probably the best idea is to see what's available locally in your size range, see which boat is in the best condition for the price and then weigh the performance options. There is lots of choice in the 18 foot range, I don't think you can go too far astray if you look at Prindles, Nacras and Hobies. There are also a handfull of smaller brands that are great boats but parts can be harder to find (Mysteres for sure if you can find one).

Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!

Wolfman wrote:
Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!

Once I buy the cat and get it back to my Lake it will never leave! {insert maniacal laughter here.}

I'll just be wheeling it back and forth about 100 yards. So I'm open to Tornadoes or Squares.

There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.

pbegle wrote: There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

The tarp and lattice is another good idea. I'm thinking instead of tarps heavy duty landscape fabric and then sand on top.

So Prindle pete recommends a Tornado?! 😉

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado? 🙄

All I could find:
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1732025785.html (too pricey/nice)
http://www.tornado-class.org/classifieds/index.php (slim pickins')

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

inexpensive is subjective. what is your price range? that should have a large impact on your options (not that you can't get a Tornado for under $5k, but a newer one in pristine condition could cost what a new honda costs)

Tornado's were recently tossed out of Olympic competition (extremely unfortunate and not good for the sport) and more and more should be coming available.

Like any specific brand, just gotta keep your eyes out. I have seen quite a few of them for sale recently (this site and others)

dont forget ebay and craigslist

edited by: andrewscott, Jun 08, 2010 - 09:49 AM

beachsailor wrote: I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.

I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach. Staying dry is no longer important... she can get wet. It's ok, really. Thanks for more boat recommendations!

As for the shoreline... well I tend to beeline for the middle ASAP as the lake is man made in a deep valley area so the sides are heavily treed and steep which tends to cause some very unusual wind conditions! If you go out after any storms or heavy rains you always have to be aware of large floating logs/branches.

I shouldn't complain at least I'm near the largest lake in Indiana. sigh... I miss the ocean.

I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach.

I actually meant a small anchor you carry. most of my peeps carry one on their cat and simply drop it everywhere we beach. i had an anchor pocket built into my custom front tramp, but proir to that i had a little bag that i used. it was attached to my tramp.

if you dont want to carry it you can simply throw it in the water near your launch spot with a little float (an empty jug, or similar will work) so you can find it. i personally do not like when people leave anchors on the public beach area as they are a hazard to cats beaching.

andrewscott wrote:

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

inexpensive is subjective. what is your price range? that should have a large impact on your options (not that you can't get a Tornado for under $5k, but a newer one in pristine condition could cost what a new honda costs)

Tornado's were recently tossed out of Olympic competition (extremely unfortunate and not good for the sport) and more and more should be coming available.

Like any specific brand, just gotta keep your eyes out. I have seen quite a few of them for sale recently (this site and others)

dont forget ebay and craigslist
edited by: andrewscott, Jun 08, 2010 - 09:49 AM

Ebay check
Craiglook check
many other sites check
Keeping my virtual eyes skinned!

I haven't set an exact price... I'd go up for the right boat. One of the biggest issues is that I seem to be 1,500 miles (2414 km) from all the cats. sigh... fly-over country whatcha' going to do?!

another option would be to get a smaller cat (if they are more available) for your first season. well used cats are pretty stable in price/value and you could simply purchase one that is local and convenient until you find your dream cat.

There is a local guy who weighs more than you and he does ok on a H16 (solo), esp in 15+.

another factor here that i just thought of is... if you get a Tornado, or P18/19, H18 etc... you better be in super duper duper shape if you plan to ba able to drag that up a beach solo. these cats all weigh 400+ and are tough to get up a beach even with 2 people sometimes (esp if you haven't emptied the keg, or have taken on some water).

I can "sail" my cat up the beach solo with the right wind conditions, but typically the wind doesn't cooperate

pbegle wrote: Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

I see you have an add now... but you're 1710 miles away. 🙁

I'm sure a tornado would do the trick. (wouldn't mind one myself) but don't count out the P18. Mine never has less than 400lbs crew weight and has sailed great with over 600lbs.

Yes, but if you come out, you can race a T on a fresh water lake with white caps in PM, or climb the range behind us & ski a bowl that will be there til July this year.

One of these days I'm gonna have to arrange a camping weekend with the family at Big Bear Pete and come your setup. It sure sounds you have a lot of fun.

pbegle wrote: Yes, but if you come out, you can race a T on a fresh water lake with white caps in PM, or climb the range behind us & ski a bowl that will be there til July this year.

OK, the bowl sounds fun (I'm a hardboot snowboarder)... I get enough fresh water at home (yuck.).

But 1710 miles one way...it's too much. Maybe I'll be desperate later. 😀

Well, you are only 600 miles from here, http://www.aquarius-sail.com/ and there should be a selection of supercats around. I think SC19's had dagger boards and it sounds like you might want to avoid those if there are as many underwater hazards as you say. Just my two bits.

We have a small airport here and could probably arrange a helicopter drop-in. My son (ski instructor) and a friend (tennis instructor) would love to go). Pete

. I think SC19's had dagger boards

it does have boards but it is the same hull shape as the 15/17 and they are boardless. you can sail without them... but i agree they may not be desirable with underwater hazards (but then again.. rudders go underwater i think)