Which boat would be better?

H16's aren't that bad Pitch pole wise...
High wind's on the other hand, That boat will Pitch pole in a second...

Have you looked into a Prindle 16 or a Prindle 19?
The Prindle's can be $500-$1500.

Hope i helped.

Depends on the condition more than anything really. I sail a Nacra 5.2 and love it and also sailed an H16 when I was younger and experiencd te pichpole problems that you speak of. There are some add on foils you can get but when the wind picks up you will still be trapping off of the back of the hull.

As lots of people already know the 5.7 is probably my all time favorite boat. No boards, no boom, well behaved and actually easier to right than the H16. It also has lots of floatation in the front of the hulls so you can ride them pretty deep without pitchpoling.

The H16 has the advantage of being a simpler rig and there are LOTS of spare parts avalable. They are certainly a lot of fun and easy to sail.

In the end, when it comes to older boats condition is probably the most important factor, but I would definitely consider the boardless Nacras (5.0, 5.7) and any of the Prindles. I would be more inclined to look at those boats over an H16 if they are available but I don't think you can go wrong with any of the boats mentioned if they are in good shape.

D.

averdunn if you don't want the nacra call me, I will buy it.

1996 is a really new Hobie 16, $1750 sounds like a deal.

A 1996 Hobie should retail between $3,000 to $3,500 without a trailer. I would check to make sure that the boat is actually a 1996 and if so and if it is in good condition, buy it fast.

I don't know what your sailing experience and comfort level is, but in most conditions the H16 is not going to pitch pole on you. You have to be pushing it hard before it pitchpoles, easier to do with heavy crew, but it isn't like the boat is going to just jump up and pitch pole on you. And you can make any cat pitch pole, so don't let the reputation scare you away. We managed to pitchpole a SC20 once, and they have huge front hull volume. But we were pushing it hard with 2 on the wire and two on the hull, flying a hull and hit a big wake.

Both boats sound like a great deal if they are in good shape. Get one and enjoy it. The H16 will be easier to setup and sail, but the 5.7 may be faster and more technical. It probably depends on what you are looking for.

Well it turns out the 5.7 is indeed a 5.2. The guy doesnt know what he has, I tried to tell him 5.7's were boardless and boomless but he still said its a 5.7.

What does it say on the sail? Most 5.7's I've seen have that right on the main.

It's not the factory sail. Probably still not a bad buy but I am going try and look at the H16 since its a good deal. If I buy it and dont like it I can always get my money back.

An original sail on an 80's era 5.7 should look like this, they will be Skip Elliot sail. Click on photo to see full size.Copy th photo & past to your phot viewer, you can blow it up & see the 5.7 layout, clean tramp, no lines at all.

Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 23, 2010 - 07:40 PM.

Yeah this one has lines on the tramp and a bar running down the center.

Hey Jeremy nevermind I have one of those. 🙁 :wallbash:

Bar down the center sounds like a 5.2
If you want a boomless boat the 5.7 is a good choice. I only weigh 170 & solo mine quite a bit. If the Gods smile I can right it solo, usually I need a 10-20 lbs of water in a bag. If you are heavier they really rock. With only my 120 lb wife or daughter on the wire, I can sit on the hull, bracing a foot against the cleat for the traveler line & fly a high speed hull across the bay. You can also put 4-5 people on them and still make pretty good time. I have buried both hulls up to the main beam & never pitched it.
The clean tramp is good for carrying inexperienced people, & makes a great picnic platform for cruising sails.

I hate to say it but given the choice between a 1996 H16 and a 1982 5.2, go for the H16. Although I have a 5.2 and absolutely LOVE it, but the H16 is a better boat to learn on. The 5.2 is an awesome boat that was actually designed to correct alot of the bad habits of the H16 but the extra rigging/controls and the boards make the learning curve on it a bit daunting. Also, in my mind, you would have to make a couple of necessary upgrades on a 1982 to improve the safety and usablility (pivmatic popups, side loaders for the boards etc) where you probably won't have to do much to the H16 to sail it (provided it's in good shape).

D.

Yes the 5.2 is a more complicated boat to rig but by how much? The mast rotator and put two boards down. I will admit the diamond wires are a pain in the butt. The Hobie tramp is much cleaner, the sails have windows, the rudders kick up, flotation in the hulls, and there are no boards to pull up. You have to upgrade for sure, pivmatics, move the bar, put jib wires underneath, swept spreaders, and a barber hauler. Also the boat may or may not have a capture mast base. Is it harder to sail? It tacks easier, faster, and doesn't pitchpole. A comment was made that in good winds, a Hobie sailor watches the leeward hull, the Nacra sailor watches the scenery. So I have no idea. :heybaby:

dang...i was so hopeing you didn't want a 700$ 5.7...

golfdad75 wrote: Hey Jeremy nevermind I have one of those. 🙁 :wallbash:

Yeah I figured that.

coastrat wrote: dang...i was so hopeing you didn't want a 700$ 5.7...

It sure sounds like it would have been a great boat if it were indeed a 5.7.

GolfDad ,what are/were your concerns regarding the diamond wires being a PITA?

Well it also turns out the H16 is a 94 and not a 96. Sail is in decent shape boat is in good shape and tramp is good. Trailer needs a little cleaning but not bad. would $1600 be a bad buy? I am contemplating either buying it or wings for my getaway. The wings on the getaway would be nice for the family but the wife will not be sailing much if any next year.

Oh and also he said the jib was off a Hobie 18 that was trimmed down and it has a roller furling.

Edited by av8erdunn on Oct 24, 2010 - 02:38 PM.

Roller furling is a nice perk to have, worth $120-$150ish used, $200 new. IF you always have help, & lots of room to beach the cat, & rig it,(so you can always turn into wind) the furling can easily be done without. If you store mast up, on a public beach, you probably want to remove the jib every night anyway, just to remove the temptation for it to run away.
If you go out for the day, but break things up into multiple sails, furling is very nice to have, but again it's a convenience item rather than a necessity.
I picked up the main parts used for fairly cheap, but I spent zero time on cosmetics for my boat, I preferred to sail the crap out of it rather than polish. Then as the season wound down, I just didn't feel like pulling it up on shore, changing things & starting to tweak, so I ended up sailing the entire year without it. I know I know, it wouldn't have been THAT much work to make the changeover. I can say, that there were several times that furling would have been VERY useful, & when the boat goes together next spring, all those collected bits WILL be installed.
I don't know Hobies, but $1600 sounds fair, for a fully functional 16 yr old boat, (check the VIN # yourself)if the hulls, rudders etc are good. If you can get a harness or two, & a decent PFD & righting line, so much the better. Ideally you can go look at it, & have him fully rig it. Then you can try the rudders, hoist the sails & see glitches that might not be apparent. You will see if blocks/traveler etc have issues, & how that cut down jib actually fits.(go take a few photos of an H16 you know is correct for comparison). Sight up the mast track for trueness, look at all the lines & rigging, poor stuff there might mean other hidden defects. Ask how much water he takes on after a day, if he says none, ask if he'll guarantee that. I've run across vendors who can suddenly be a little evasive, or outright liars.
Finally, if the boat is in good shape, & you decide 2 years later you need the 5.7 you found, you can probably sell it for the same as you paid, assuming you don't wreck it.

Yeah, I love my roller furling on my Getaway. I will probably go look at it next weekend and see what it looks like. I am leaning towards buying it vs. the wings for my getaway since it will be easier to launch solo. I asked about the trap harness but he didnt have any. as for the PFD's I have enough of them as it is. The righting line, that isnt fixed to the boat? on my Getaway its fixed on bottom.

Edited by av8erdunn on Oct 24, 2010 - 06:14 PM.

Edchris177 wrote: GolfDad ,what are/were your concerns regarding the diamond wires being a PITA?

Well it is one more thing for the the main, jib halyard, front shroud, trap line to wrap around. The hobie gets a plus, also what actually does it do.

I dont know what to do. I would like to hold out for a nacra but I hate to pass up a good deal.

Edited by av8erdunn on Oct 24, 2010 - 07:59 PM.

gotta add my experience here; the standard Hobie 16 jib is huge and fully battoned, generates massive push, in my humble opinion, this is the major cause for pitchpoling. I switched to a roller furling jib for safety reasons and the smaller jib sail almost neutralized the pitch-pole problem. I say almost because there were days when the wind was blowing around 20 + mph, on a beam/broad reach where maximum push is generated on jib sail, and I was pushing my H16 hard, I was trapped out on the back of the windward hull, one foot on the hull, the other on the tramp frame, where I would have to keep one eye on the leeward hull as it tended to bury the bow ominously.

There were other benefits too, the sail did not hang up on the mast when tacking, setup time was quicker with the jib ready when the mast was stepped, the jib sail could be furled in a sudden big blow, or even when beaching for lunch. I paid $1400 for my '78 H16 without furling option, if your H16 already has that option, hulls are solid, rudders and cams are good, standing rigging good, mast is straight, then I have only one question:-

what are you waiting for? :mg:

Yeah, that's a good price for a 1994 with a roller furling jib and trailer!

If I ever wanted to race the boat what would I have to do to be compliant since the jib is not stock? I think it would be fun to do so but I dont want to have to start changing the world to do it.

Well it is one more thing for the the main, jib halyard, front shroud, trap line to wrap around. The hobie gets a plus, also what actually does it do.

I am assuming you mean wrap around when you have the mast down for trailering? The solution there is to wrap shrouds, halyards etc in coils & hang them from the mast, it takes a few trial & errors to sort out what works best for your Cat, but then the issue is no more.
What they do...diamond wires are the Viagra of catamarans, stiffen the rod, put lead in the pencil. It is very difficult to build a long light stick & keep it stiff. The longer it gets the more wobbly. You can compensate by using thicker walls &/or larger diameter extrusions, but the weight starts to get out of control. Essentially wires turn that thin stick into a engineered truss. (sort of like trusses for floor joists instead of 2x10s) As the mast tries to bend under load, one set of wires is placed under tension, the mast can't bend as much because it has to stretch the wire to do so.
These wires now give you a powerful tool for powering or depowering the rig. Loosen them off & the mast can bend more. More bend equals a flatter sail & less power, or vice versa.
Nacra claims "diamond wire tension is the single most critical tuning adjustment."

If I ever wanted to race the boat what would I have to do to be compliant since the jib is not stock? I think it would be fun to do so but I dont want to have to start changing the world to do it.

you would need to install a Hobie 16 jib and remove the furler completely. That is assuming you want to race competitively. You could probably take your H16 with furling jib out and race with most clubs. You just would be disqualified if you finished ahead of people who were serious about racing. But I think most groups would allow you to come out and race with them in their non-competitive divisions.

I think I am going to walk away on the H16 also. It has ports installed in front of the pylons reducing the structural integrity of the hulls. He said the ports are stuck on and would need to be replaced, chances are they are glued on to hide damage. Oh well, there is a Nacra, H16 or a set of wings for my Getaway in the near future. Well at least before next sailing season. I was really wanting something to fly a hull on but it would be ok I guess.