Use Caution dealing with "HULLFLYER"

sorry to hear about your problems....
thanks for the info

He would not accept a US$ check, or Pay Pal, even though I said it would be fine

something smells rotten with that...

Good new is that harken sells a rebuild kit.

MN3 wrote: sorry to hear about your problems....
thanks for the info

He would not accept a US$ check, or Pay Pal, even though I said it would be fine

something smells rotten with that...

Not always, there can be any number of reasons a seller wouldn't want to take those two forms of payment. A USPS money order is about the only thing that's bank will accept as cash. My bank treats all other MOs, bank checks and cashiers checks just like normal checks. Often the hassle of waiting on a check to clear is not worthwhile for low value items. PayPal has all sorts of its own problems.

I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out that I am not alarmed by those conditions.

Edchris177 wrote:
I contacted the above individual numerous times, to enact a resolution, giving a week between contacts in case he was away or working hard.

By "contacted" that you actually spoke to him, and he refused to correct the situation?

This is a long time member, and very active in his local area.

just pointing out that I am not alarmed by those conditions.

in today's world & web .... I (personally) wouldn't do business with anyone i couldn't use pay pal, or a credit card with (or some other agreed resource) so I have some protections. I pay my designers, programmers, copywriters all via pay pal. they LOVE it that i pay them 10 minutes after i get an invoice. we have NEVER had an issue.

This is Edchris177 we are talking about. This guy has been an extremely active (and very "nice") user on this forum for years. Your not gonna accept a check and wait a few days for it to clear?... not worth what hassle? having a furler sit around for 1 more week?

Speaks volumes to me...

Edited by MN3 on Aug 15, 2013 - 09:41 AM.

I've deleted hullflyer's personal information from the first post until we hear his side of this. He has been a member and active here since 2004, seems only fair.

I've deleted hullflyer's personal information from the first post until we hear his side of this. He has been a member and active here since 2004, seems only fair.

Fair enough, for now.
I know he reads the forum, & I also asked him,(in reply to one of his posts from a couple of days ago) to please PM, email, or otherwise get in touch. As options I offered to return the item or requested compensation for parts to make it usable.
I also outlined very clearly to him the steps I would take, both here & CatSailor forum if his course of action was that of continued utter silence.
How could he have not received at least 1 of my inquiries? We exchanged quite a few emails regarding the sale, after he posted the items here under classifieds. He actually initiated the transaction by emailing to enquire if I was still interested.

"On 11/07/2013 9:00 AM, Elias Reynolds wrote:
> Still interested in furler
> EliasSent from my MetroPCS 4G Wireless Phone "

I replied that I was, & said I would buy it if it were in good condition. His response was that it "was in great shape".

As stated, in the great scheme of things, the $300 I ended up spending, ($150 for furler+$50 COD fee+$41 parts+shipping) will not make a ripple in my personal finances, but it might for others. Most importantly, it's the principle, I could have bought a brand new one for $275.
I even conveyed to him that perhaps the shipping via USPS was not quite clear,( though I find it hard to misconstrue, "when you drop it at the POST OFFICE, please mark the little green declaration sticker as "gift", otherwise our Gov't will impose taxes) & that though not thrilled, I would eat that cost, but felt he should man up & help me out with the rebuild parts.
If a guy needs $40 that badly to eat, I'd just give it to him.
In the world of E Commerce, the only thing you have is your reputation, hard to earn, easy to damage. I firmly believe that vendors should be given the chance to make things right, but if they don't, it's their reputation that will suffer.
If perchance this is all a mistake, & there is some valid reason for utter silence, I will post a full & humble apology, & send the guy a Grolcsh as a peace offering.
Until then, as they say, Caveat Emptor.

how long has it been since you received the part and tried to contact him to discuss the situation?

"On 11/07/2013 9:00 AM, Elias Reynolds wrote:

MN3, I was simply pointing out some reasons a seller might not accept those payment methods. The buyer always has the option of not doing business with a seller for any reason.

Edchris177,

Shit happens. I've had an exact similar experience, when I purchased goods from a very well know member here, and what I lost far exceeds what your talking about. Shipping ran several hundred dollars. Well know member selling to a well know member. He represented it as one thing (excellent condition), I received it believing it was something else (totally worthless crap). Again same scenario. I took the high road. Today that member posts regularly, and sells items here often, and every time he sells something I shake my head. In retrospect, he still provides something positive to the community. He's probably laughing reading this.

Andrew experienced a personal problem with a real brick and mortar vendor. Completely different scenario when dealing with a store than a forum member. So . . .

I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .

It is mine and only my opinion that your actions are reckless and malicious, that you have overstepped the bounds of decency. To provide that member's name, and then his home address, and then even his phone number is gross misconduct. Don't really care how wrong the seller is, your dealings with him are private. If warranted a "full and humble apology" would be too late. Your intended damage is done. I hope you take the high road.

It would only be fair that Hullflyer provide us with your personal information, and I hope he does.

So what is your name?

High road my A$$. I have no problem calling out someone that sells something then refuses to return communications when there is a problem. Happened to me with a boat. Fool me once, never again. We like to believe the best from our fellow sailors but it is not always the case.

Edited by beachsailor on Aug 15, 2013 - 02:27 PM.

Tough crowd today :-O

+1

I have no problem calling out someone that sells something then refuses to return communications when there is a problem.

P.M. wrote:

I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .

This is a problem I see all of the time, people who are honestly very proud of their boat/parts or people who have parts that have sat around a decade and are less serviceable than originally thought.

I also have seen several instances of respectable people describe sails or boats very differently, sometimes this is the case of neutral parties, sometimes these lead to bad feelings between friends.

As a seller, I often trash parts or boats that are worth money to someone, but are too easily misunderstood. Things like this topic are not worth a $100 transaction.

bacho wrote: [quote=P.M.]I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .

This is a problem I see all of the time, people who are honestly very proud of their boat/parts or people who have parts that have sat around a decade and are less serviceable than originally thought.

I also have seen several instances of respectable people describe sails or boats very differently, sometimes this is the case of neutral parties, sometimes these lead to bad feelings between friends.

You articulate the point I was making well. Kinda why my opening paragraph was made. I know that the seller I dealt with is someone I will meet some day and probably sail with, or even an evening at dinner while enjoying a beverage. No need for me to try to flame his a$$. If some of you folks here knew the details of our transaction, you would scream, holler, and throw all kinds of a rage. He saw ying in his product, I saw yang. Cost me some coin, but in the end nobody wins, so I chose the high road. Life's too short.

Posting the sellers personal information was in poor taste.

nacra55 wrote: Tough crowd today :-O

You should have been around in the days when a vendor didn't ship a pair of gloves... We were talking cage fighting matches to the death.....

Fwiw this is hardly personal information. Everything except his street address can be found on this site. Street address can be found in 30 seconds with a Google search. Just saying.

JohnES wrote: [quote=nacra55]Tough crowd today :-O

You should have been around in the days when a vendor didn't ship a pair of gloves... We were talking cage fighting matches to the death.....

Are we referring to Lee and your buddy Mark M?

bacho wrote: MN3, I was simply pointing out some reasons a seller might not accept those payment methods. The buyer always has the option of not doing business with a seller for any reason.

This is the exact reason I didn't do business with the same person a couple years ago. I figured if we couldn't agree on payment terms, there was no way the transaction would go smoothly.

Electronic payments are so much easier to deal with, as well as traceable, that I don't feel comfortable with anyone that wants something else, especially when it's clearly less convenient.

P.M. wrote: [quote=JohnES][quote=nacra55]Tough crowd today :-O

You should have been around in the days when a vendor didn't ship a pair of gloves... We were talking cage fighting matches to the death.....

Are we referring to Lee and your buddy Mark M?

One of the classics!

I'll vouch for EC as being a super stand-up guy who I have shared several beers with and has sent me parts on a moments notice when in need. Posting personal info might have been an error in judgement but I don't know because it was removed so fast I don't even know what was posted. I'm hoping this thing with hullflyer is just a huge misunderstanding. I know I didn't open my used roller furler and check the bearings before I put it on the boat, but then it rotated quite well. It makes me want to unstep my mast and check it out this weekend.

If I were Hullflyer and something did get screwed up in translation due to any sort of extenuating circumstances I would simply give EC a call or an e-mail to explain the issue figure out a reasonable solution and accept my imported beer and apology. We all screw things up, its not whether you make a mistake it's how you resolve it in the end.

D.

This is a long time member, and very active in his local area.

Why then we not hearing from Hullflyer himself? And how about fixing this "misunderstanding"? And that would be giving Edchris177 ALL his money back, including all the costs he acquired.

He is THE customer and he is not happy. If Hullflyer cares about selling anything on this site, not to mention his personal reputation, the time to act is now.

Unless there was a death in the family or something really tragic, no response from HULLFLYER pretty much says it all. There are extreme situations that can negatively impact a one man operation, however, it seems the furler was in pretty rough shape from the get go and any competent seller would have recognized this.

HULLFLYER gets a thumbs down on this one until the buyer is made whole.

errors and omissions
1.The buyer indicated that he did not want to spend money on a money order and he was the one who suggested cash. (I have the email)
2.What he received for the $150 was a used roller furler (that was in good condition) one upper forstay with swivel, and 2 brand new small Harken blocks. $150 less $30 shipping, $25 for new bocks, so for $95 he got a roller furler and complete upper forestay.(I have the emails) If any one would like a photo of the parts I would be happy to send them.
3. Any additional charges (if he had any) were due to him living in Canada. They do have a value added tax of about 16 percent. I put a value of $100 when I shipped them, so if any thing additional was due, it was on him. If he was trying to beat the government, (and he was, I have the emails to prove it) and got caught and had to pay additional fees, so be it. I paid the shipping costs, so I doubt that there was a $50 additional fee. It just does not sound right.
4. He was replacing a bad furler, how do I know the pictures he sent were not from that one. When I sent the furler it was working fine.
5. The reason I ignored this for so long was I felt the person was trying to WORK me, I am almost 70 years old and have came across people like this in the past and did not feel like it was worth my time.
6. NEVER LISTEN TO ONE AND JUDGE TWO, there is always another side, it appears that some people on this site are quick to judge.
7. I have every email to back up my side and would be happy to send them to Damon if he would like them.

we canadians are saddled with brokerage fees when things are shipped across the border using fed ex or ups. the brokerage fee is IN ADDITION to the shipping fee, and the customs fee. USPS never charges a brokerage fee. things shipped to canada should be done by USPS if possible. i will not order anything from the states that is to be shipped fed ex or ups.
jon

HULLFLYER wrote: 6. NEVER LISTEN TO ONE AND JUDGE TWO, there is always another side, it appears that some people on this site are quick to judge.

Glass houses . . . yep, we all live in glass houses.

Hullflyer, thanks for stepping forward. Again, let me make it perfectly clear I'm not taking a side, but . . . Unfortunately, you should have never been put in this position to have to reply. This transaction should have remained PRIVATE. Somewhere between EdChris posts and your reply is the truth. In the end, it is just a pissing contest and nobody wins. The damage cannot be undone.

Interesting . . . upper swivel, forestay, two new blocks? Hum . . .

removed

Edited by MN3 on Aug 19, 2013 - 11:15 AM.

If I thought that this person had a legitimate complaint I would have responded. In my mind I truly thought that he was just trying to WORK me. He truly omitted an awful lot in his post.
Did not wish to pay for money order
His idea to send cash, see above
Did not indicate how many parts he received
Implied that there was postage due COD
With these any other factors I thought that it was a no win situation and chose to ignore him.
As I indicated I have the emails, pictures and receipts and will send them to Damon if he likes.

I truly think that the Canadian government hit him with additional fees that were due, and he thought that I would pay for them and used this method to WORK me for the money.

One has a right to respond or not respond to any situation that comes up. Some are worthy of a response, some are not.

I also think because you know that I have had good relations with SLO SAILS, and you have not, and if anyone asked on this site I have indicated what my dealings have been, and they have all been positive," is why you continue to post about my situation". I am truly sorry that you had bad dealings with them, and I have had nothing but good ones. I can not hold it against SLO SAILS, that your situation went sour. One must keep an open mind and NOT LISTEN TO ONE AND JUDGE TWO, as I did in the SLOSAILS situation.

removed

Edited by MN3 on Aug 19, 2013 - 11:15 AM.