Steeplechase: Day 1 Start Collision with Interview

HARPOONED!!!

How sad is that! Team Wave sheets in and skewers Adrenaline, and then leaves their jib sheeted, though they did loosen the mainsheet a bit, it is still traveled into center position! They keep powering that pole into Adrenaline! Jeez, maybe they should learn to control a cat before you enter a race with other $20,000 boats to crash into...

that's why they require insurance...repair probably cost the deductable though...

Easy guys. Skip and Ian are both top-notch A-Cat sailors. I believe Skip is also currently the top-ranked US Wave sailor as well. The ARC22 has a 12:1 mainsheet so sheeting out isn't as quick as our smaller cats. Blowing the jib on a self-tacking setup ain't the easiest thing to do either.

It's easy to armchair quarterback. I've sailed with both these guys numerous times and can vouch for their responsible and skillful sailing. Sometimes "stuff happens". Yes - a good reason to carry insurance.

looks to me like team stray cats carries some of the "moral" responsibility for that...

rehmbo wrote: Easy guys. Skip and Ian are both top-notch A-Cat sailors. I believe Skip is also currently the top-ranked US Wave sailor as well. The ARC22 has a 12:1 mainsheet so sheeting out isn't as quick as our smaller cats. Blowing the jib on a self-tacking setup ain't the easiest thing to do either.

It's easy to armchair quarterback. I've sailed with both these guys numerous times and can vouch for their responsible and skillful sailing. Sometimes "stuff happens". Yes - a good reason to carry insurance.

I admire your loyalty.
This is just us talking over a fence post.
It's not their reputations that skewered Adrenaline.
"Stuff" didn't appear to happen either.
They made a couple of mistakes and would probably be the first to admit it, based on your comments.
That is how they have learned to be as good as you say they are.
I have made bad decisions and collided with another boat. Yep- my fault. I learned from it and moved on.
This is how we improve- from experience and watching others on youtube.
Nice shooting Tex, but save your ammo for when there's a real gunfight.

Agreed 🙂 . One lesson I learned (or at least had strongly reinforced) is to always keep the traveler line in hand during the start (I normally do anyway as its much quicker to start the powering up process). It's also much quicker to dump the main, de-power, and fall off if you have to dive under someone.

It's amazing to me how quick stuff happens out there and how 0.1 seconds means the difference between a collision and a non-issue.

For those that want to see the gory post-mortem dissection/discussion, you can check the forums at catsailor.com. Some very heated discussion - not for the faint of heart.

BTW, this reminds me of a recent X40 or ACWS incident (I can't remember 🙄 ) a month or two ago. Similar problem and similar result. Lots of question on who had rights, close-quarter handling techniques of cats, etc.

in that ac45 series of incidents in plymouth? i think it was green comms fluffying around in the strong winds that led to 2 collisions, some injuries and a $200,000 damages bill...

I found it. It was X40. Link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkYZy-6JRmw

The context wasn't as similar as I originally thought. However, the cause (inability to quickly bear away with a fully powered main) and the results are similar.

Check out there main sheet 12-1 o on team wave, it has more cross friction points than I can count.. I had the same system on my heavily modified stiletto 23 with no cross friction points ... Take a look at Eric's on his 22 no cross friction points and he has 14-1 .. The cross friction points defiantly have some thing to do with the slow time to dump the main and they didn't dump traveler as noted ... Take note were did the Marstroms, Nacra f-20 and the other ARC start ... Hmmm . They knew there would be trouble on the line at the pin. Top wave sailor and ARC 22 not even to be compared when you step up to a boat that has a DPN # 57.5 you better know what your getting your self into or you risk hurting your crew and other people around you .. Lesson here when your in over your head don't let your poor judgment be costly to other peoples safety or equipment ...

Edited by George1067 on Dec 15, 2011 - 07:01 AM.

erice wrote: looks to me like team stray cats carries some of the "moral" responsibility for that...

why is that?

other views of this accident - http://picasaweb.google.com/SailingImagesByMica/Steeplechase2011#5684678003841341170

Edited by MN3 on Dec 15, 2011 - 07:28 AM.

12:1 seem a bit excessive to anyone else? I get it, the ARC has 360 sq ft of sail (and how much of that is main, I'm unsure). My mystere 6.0 has a 7:1 and I can sheet the shit out of it all day, rarely sailing cleated. Even if you wanted to depower, that's a TON of line to feed out.

look at the video again. from my days in club racing, this clearly looks like a case of 'barging' by the cat with the black graphics. no room at the mark for their approach. they were actually bumped (at 0.18sec) by the leeward (yellow sail) cat who had rights to come up before getting to the mark, which forced them into the collision.

Edited by arch on Dec 15, 2011 - 08:35 AM.

arch wrote: look at the video again. from my days in club racing, this clearly looks like a case of 'barging' by the cat with the black graphics. no room at the mark for their approach. they were actually bumped (at 0.18sec) by the leeward (yellow sail) cat who had rights to come up before getting to the mark, which forced them into the collision.Edited by arch on Dec 15, 2011 - 08:35 AM.

Both boats are barging, go on cat sailor, only contact made was with ARC 22 to I 20 he should have come up and tack as did infusion or run over starting pin and do 360 he had rights over barging f-18. He should have headed them up.. Instead he got haired out and went down on leeward boat i 20 . There is a very heated debate on beach cats .. Further more he should have retired from race, he never should have sailed on, just bad sportsmanship all around... He also reneged on fixing boat, on Saturday he said he would take care of it .. Sunday at breakfast he reneged .. How do I know I have a friend who witnessed the reneging of it .... Again just bad sportsmanship all around ..

Edited by George1067 on Dec 15, 2011 - 09:15 AM.

The crazy part is that these guys were starting a 70 mile distance drag race, not a 30 minute buoy race where seconds on the start could mean first to A mark.

The really fast boats, Nacra F20 Carbon and two Marstrom 20's started safely down the line out of the commotion.

DamonLinkous wrote: The crazy part is that these guys were starting a 70 mile distance drag race, not a 30 minute buoy race where seconds on the start could mean first to A mark.

The really fast boats, Nacra F20 Carbon and two Marstrom 20's started safely down the line out of the commotion.

That's what I said three post down LOL...

The really fast boats, Nacra F20 Carbon and two Marstrom 20's started safely down the line out of the commotion.

The lee mark was actually the favored mark as well (shortest route) as mentioned by Rick White (he set it)

The few races i have done (about a dozen) the windward pin is a wild place to start from. There are good and bad sailors (at every race i have seen in person) and you have to really be on your game... or be ready to whip out your checkbook. But it is the best feeling to shoot the pin, get the best air and lead the fleet...

Edited by MN3 on Dec 15, 2011 - 04:02 PM.

[quote=MN3]

there was no contact (although it looks and sounds like it) between the f18 and the ARC22 (look at the spin pole footage around 1:25)

it's anyone's call as to whether there was contact at 1:25, but when i look at the path the f-18 was taking as it rounds up, their path does a stutter-step at that point and is not a smooth curve. it appears the starboard bow on the arc-22 hit their port transom, which should have been a penalty on the f-18. the arc-22 was heading up to avoid the leeward boat (all good) but they got boxed in.

i have been in these situations in a mixed fleet race with cruisers (a.k.a. bigger than me) but was fortunate enough to be able to duck them. i was barging but my bet didn't pay off...... :teacher: