Prindle 18 vs 19

chump23 wrote: Just for discussion sake, if one were interested in upgrading from a Prindle 18 to a 19 how noticeable would it be?
Much faster? YES
Better tacking? YES
Carry more or less weight? MORE
Similar rigging time? SAME

FYI, I have only sailed my 18 a handful of times and have yet to get everything ironed out, but I like the idea of a Prindle 19 in the future. I really just think they are prettier boats.

If you can find an 18-2 this would be a great next step...

I have heard 18-2's are really only a 2 man boat, ie. they can't carry much weight. Weight capacity is important to me.

Why do you suggest an 18-2 vs 19?

Edited by chump23 on Oct 27, 2016 - 02:07 PM.

JohnES wrote: If you can find an 18-2 this would be a great next step...

+1
The 19 hulls are narrower and have a completely different rocker (profile) than the 18-2. This makes the 19 a bit less forgiving to steer.
The 18-2 and 19 are both rockets, designed after the old Tornado Olympic class cats. They both have a LOT of bouyancy in the hulls up front, intended for ocean racing. They are a little more complicated to sail, with 4 way jib block adjustments, and centerboards, and maybe mylar sails...
Do look forward to the idea of an 18-2 or 19 in the future.

chump23 wrote: I have heard 18-2's are really only a 2 man boat, ie. they can't carry much weight. Weight capacity is important to me.

Why do you suggest an 18-2 vs 19?Edited by chump23 on Oct 27, 2016 - 02:07 PM.

The P-18 is build like a tank and I personally wouldn't let go
of it.
Regarding you're upgrade, could you point us where you want
to go?

Go faster, sportier and even do a Spi (aftermarket)
A P18-2 or P19 is a way to go. (there's more to explore)
Like klozhald pointed out they are rockets, but don't like a
lot of weight on the transom.
Also keep in mind they are build much lighter and vulnerable
to damage. Can't beach them like a P18.

Or, taking more crew, family and even an ice-box on the
tramp?
Then, get an older 20 foot. Nacra and Hobie are the way to go,

Grtz, André

chump23 wrote: Just for discussion sake, if one were interested in upgrading from a Prindle 18 to a 19 how noticeable would it be?
Much faster?
Better tacking?
Carry more or less weight?
Similar rigging time?

FYI, I have only sailed my 18 a handful of times and have yet to get everything ironed out, but I like the idea of a Prindle 19 in the future. I really just think they are prettier boats.

I suggest you sail the crap out of your'e P18 and learn to manage that
boat first. They are great catamarans! And well build.
Whats with looks? (a P19 looking better?)
The P18 and the P18-2 have the same mast, so you could even
upgrade to a 18-2 main with minor costs .

I fully intend to sail the crap out of this P18 for at least another year! I just started this thread for some conversation and input for the future.

I am asking out the P19, and perhaps 18-2 because they have centerboards. Dagger boards are not something I am interested in dealing with in my very shallow, but large bay. With more time on the boat, ocean sailing will be happening. Sportiness would be nice, but room for family and fun is more important. I'm toying with the idea of adding some Getaway wings on my P18 with the idea of moving them (with modifications) over to whatever the future boat is.

Hobie 21 was an original ideal, but after sailing in my area a bit I don't think I have a great setup to deal with a boat of that size and weight. Mystere 6.0 and 5.5 sounds great and have wing options, but they don't seem to exist anywhere outside of Florida and the Great Lakes area. That pretty much leaves P19's and potentially 18-2's as future options. I suppose a Getaway checks the family boat option, but for the money I could buy a cherry 20' boat. There, you have my entire though process. 😀

Oh, and P16-18's have that odd turn down on the decks and giant slabs on the side of the hulls. Functional sure. Just not what I call pretty.

Edited by chump23 on Oct 27, 2016 - 04:25 PM.

chump23,

I'm in Europe, and don't know about the availability of Dart
catamarans in the US, but a Dart 20 (Stampede) should cover
your demands. Skeggs, no boards, outrageous fast.
Light and easy to disassemble .

And just forget about the "giant slabs on the side" it means
you are sailing a true "classic" 🙂 🙂

Grtz, André

The Dart reminds me of a Nacra 5.7. I forgot to mention those as a possibility as well, but my questions were just centered around the performance differences of P18's and P19's or 18-2's. There are already lots of "Which boat?" discussions. Thank you for the input though. I had never looked up a Dart before.

So does a P18-2 carry weight better than a P19?
Also, do the three boat share crossbeams?

chump23 wrote: The Dart reminds me of a Nacra 5.7. I forgot to mention those as a possibility as well, but my questions were just centered around the performance differences of P18's and P19's or 18-2's. There are already lots of "Which boat?" discussions. Thank you for the input though. I had never looked up a Dart before.

So does a P18-2 carry weight better than a P19?
Also, do the three boat share crossbeams?

As a former P18-2 sailor, I changed to a Tornado,
I can tell you a P18-2 doesn't take weight very well.
They are called " submarines" at our club and are known
for pitchpoling..
I'm a big man, 260 Lb with gear on, and soloing
found myself sitting against the stays most of the time.
Till 15 knts windspeed there was no way I could take crew
and have a blast.

Now, the P19 is a foot longer( mostly in the bow section)
and that somewhat solved the "pitchpoling" issue.. but
nevertheless are still very proun to weight.

They are both build as "racers" and not family cats.

I can confirm they can share crossbeams.
( not sure about the P18)

The P18 is more of an allrounder and fun-cat.

Fun side is, with the P18-2 I could sail at all windspeed,
with the Tornado, above 17 Knts I have to look for crew...

Grtz, André

So.. maybe a Tornado ??

Hmm.. Well, I guess that means I'll probably be looking for a 20' boat when the time comes. Ofcourse, only one member of my family may be very interested in sailing, in which case everything above is on the table.

Thanks for the knowledge, Andre.

Other opinions?

I raced P-19's for years. Great boat, but not nearly durable enough. I moved to a Nacra 5.8, and that same boat I sailed at the 1987 Nationals in Ft. Walton Beach is still sailing at Cheney. I am back to soloing my P-18 classic, and I love it. If it ain't broke, maybe you shouldn't fix it.

+1

p8dawg wrote: I raced P-19's for years. Great boat, but not nearly durable enough. I moved to a Nacra 5.8, and that same boat I sailed at the 1987 Nationals in Ft. Walton Beach is still sailing at Cheney. I am back to soloing my P-18 classic, and I love it. If it ain't broke, maybe you shouldn't fix it.

I see quite a couple of Prindle sailors returning to the "classic" P's..
18's and even the 15's are sold as racers under the texel-yardstick.
So hold on to you're P18.

chump23 wrote: Hmm.. Well, I guess that means I'll probably be looking for a 20' boat when the time comes. Ofcourse, only one member of my family may be very interested in sailing, in which case everything above is on the table.

Thanks for the knowledge, Andre.

Other opinions?

I know there's a few Dart 18 available in the states, great cats!
You're other option could be a Nacra 5.7

Grtz, André

I have a P-19 and can relate to it being a rocket to sail. I got new sails this summer and this boat accelerates like a missle on any reach. I have rigged up a water bag for capsize recovery and it really helps

I bought a 19 last month..took it to a small lake for its maiden , wind was around 12 - 15..
My buddy & I were only going but then.. my neighbor pops over wanting to go & so does my 14 yr old daughter,
588 lbs on board, best speed was 14.2 according to RACE QS..ABSOLUTE BLAST 😎

carl2 wrote:

I bought a 19 last month..took it to a small lake for its maiden , wind was around 12 - 15..
My buddy & I were only going but then.. my neighbor pops over wanting to go & so does my 14 yr old daughter,
588 lbs on board, best speed was 14.2 according to RACE QS..ABSOLUTE BLAST 😎

That sounds promising!

For recreational sailing, I have had 500 pounds of meat on my 18-2 in a blow and it was really fun.
I race my cat with my son, and we are 340 lbs combined, and still do well in 15 kts in the ocean.

I have an 18 and 19. 19 much faster and able to point higher. Harder to single hand in winds higher than 10 knots, but has furling jib which makes it more manageable. Both stay on the beach and have survived well, both are fun but 19 can be competitively raced and there is no restriction on sails.

What is the difference in length between the crossbars of an 18 and 19?
ie. If I made wings for the 18 would the fit the 19?

from the front of the dolphin striker to the center of the rear beam 92.5

carl2 wrote: from the front of the dolphin striker to the center of the rear beam 92.5

Same measurement on an 18 is about 88.5".
So 4" difference.

Thanks

Hi everybody.
I'm brand new to cat sailing and just bought a P18. My question does fall within this forum thread. Currently our sailing would be with two adults, 350lbs and a 11 year old. My question is about the future, way down the road. If one has three adults, say 500 lbs. Would moving to a 20foot cat be the way to go? I would think if you had four adults then definitely a 20foot. I plan on using the P18 for years but was reading this thread and it's very close to my future question, so what the heck I thought I'd post my question.

I'm in a similar situation. My plan, for now, is to eventually buy Hobie Getaway wings and modify them to fit my P18. That way there is plenty of room for 4 adults. Won't be fast, but that isn't important to me. Just want the company.

If one has three adults, say 500 lbs. Would moving to a 20foot cat be the way to go?

well you have lots more tramp area on a 8'5 wide beam than your prindle's 7.92' but not sure the tramp is gonna be much "longer"...

since these are 2 person boats ... without wings 3 adults is a cozy fit on any beach cat - even w/wings... you don't sail w crew on the wings without lots of air so it's still cozy at times (i.e launching, right after tacking etc)

and since wind and waves are variable there is no absolute answer

if you have med - heavy air you want (need) 2 on board (either boat), so 3 is do-able
in light air you DON'T want 3 on board (either boat) unless you don't mind floating and going slow

wdglenn wrote: I have an 18 and 19. 19 much faster and able to point higher. Harder to single hand in winds higher than 10 knots, but has furling jib which makes it more manageable. Both stay on the beach and have survived well, both are fun but 19 can be competitively raced and there is no restriction on sails.

I singlehand mine in winds up to 18-20 no problem when it gets over 20 then things get really fun. 25 is a serious handful singlehand and 30 is a total riot max depower and it's still too much. I'm 250lbs outfitted and 6foot5... so I'm a pretty big dude. Righting requires a bag or another boat singlehand

Ditto on singlehanded above 18kts, which by then jib is furled and main is flattened like a pancake. Having a square head main by Whirlwind greatly assists by twisting off the leech in the puffs saving me from working the traveler. P-19 has the versatility and performance I’m learning to appreciate more and more and find she can get into a wider groove than say a F-18 for a lot less dineros. Haven’t experienced a pitch pole YET which means I haven’t found her top end or put the spurs in hard enough. Anyway whatever the ideal crew weight I can get close to, my focus is having her tuned in for the conditions. I accept The fact I will consistently be tweaking this or that until I can squeeze out every single knot. When I get to experience the rewards of having her dialed-in, double trapped screaming like a wild banshee, head phones cranking Steppenwolf’s “Radar Love” and crew howling in acceleration of puffs makes it all worthwhile. Long ago an Old timer Admiral gave me a simple pearl of wisdom: Preparation equals Performance. Of which have been my watchwords within my wheelhouse. Sail fast and live slow.

I posted this link in another thread, but in case you haven't seen it you might enjoy the vid of this guy pushing his P19 solo to the max in high winds, and the foot save he makes on the mast after pitch-poling at 5:50: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeEN77NJdfE

From the couple of videos I've seen, it looks like the P18-2 and P19 tend to stay pretty flat even when they pitch pole, offering a chance to possibly not actually go over.

Edited by CatFan57 on Jul 14, 2018 - 12:39 AM.

The P19 ticks off the list as JohnES posted. I owned a P18 for about 18 months but wanted something higher performing and moved to the P19 which I've been sailing going on four years now. The P18 is a bigger version of the P16, the P19 is a rocket. I didn't notice any significant increase in setup time or rigging. It will carry more people at speed with increased sail area, but four adults would be pushing it. In the open ocean, it's hull shape is much better for punching through swells and it's less prone to a pitchpoling. I singlehand mine 90% of the time in winds up to 15 knots full jib, but have more fun on the ocean trapped out at 10-12 knots.

The P19 weighs the same as the P18 at 385lbs due to its foam core construction. You'd be hard pressed to find a lighter older boat of similar size. I'm impressed by its strength, but the hulls surface is prone to damage due to a thin outer skin over a foam core. My guess is it's no different from any other foam core boat. As for beaching, no rocks is a must as the foam core begins maybe three inches from centerline on the bottom. I've beached mine on softball sized rock landings a number of times and eventually ground through the fiberglass and created some soft spots. I'm in the process of a major rebuild. https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=130193

Edited by spfx on Jul 14, 2018 - 01:37 AM.