Possible move from H18 to another cat

hc16runner wrote: We are having the Raven "Rookie" Race on July 11 in Va Beach, there is a sailing seminar on how to tune/setup/race your boat before the race. It's a great opportunity to ask questions and check out the other boats.

You can leave the boat with the mast up on the beach for the weekend if you want to. Let me know if you're interested and I'll email you the details.

Zach
N5.7 NA

I emailed you.

goodsailing wrote: I'd prefer sailing 15+ more like 20 so what would be your suggestion if not H18. At 15kts in H18 wasn't so dramatic.. more like pleasure cruzing.

Oh, my lord!

🙄

OH, no white caps. ?? not sure that would happen at 15kts. 70's boat, perhaps heavier than 80's models.

White caps form at approximately 12kts of wind on open water, and by 15kts you'll have significant white caps.

As Edchris said, my Nacra 5.7 easily flies a hull in anything over about 8kts when I'm solo. If I'm solo at 15kts of wind, I have to travel out and depower to keep from flipping the boat. It's a handful at 15, but still fun. At 20 you'd better REALLY be on your toes or you're going swimming.

Your 18 must be seriously overweight if you're having trouble flying a hull. One suggestion is to find a local truck scale and weigh your boat. Drive onto it with boat on trailer, once again with trailer empty, then figure out boat's weight. At least you'll have an idea of the boat's weight and we can go from there in figuring out what the problem is.

If there were no whitecaps chances are you were under 10 mph wind. Sound like you did everything possible to 'de power' your boat. If you want to fly the hull you need more sail shape! Less Cunningham less main sheet less out haul and full jib. Then you will be flying. If everything is super tight then your sail will be super flat and you will get very little lift.

15mph average windspeed is solid double trapping on a H18. Nothing extreme, but solid trapping.

If you're on a beam reach you definitely should not be traveler centered and sheeted hard. Look up at your telltails.

sm

goodsailing wrote:

C) the wind was actually 5 kts.

Wind was 14-15 mph. My bad. Only flew the main. Jib was furled. I was block to block, block in center. Full on for outhaul and full on for cunningham heading perpendicular to the wind and the hull did not rise. Is there any more trimming needed? Perhaps with jib deployed would have gotten there. We'll try again believe me.\
OH, no white caps. ?? not sure that would happen at 15kts. 70's boat, perhaps heavier than 80's models.

Block to block on a H18, I didn't know that was possible. That's a hobie 16 thing.

Cunningham (downhaul) should be just getting the wrinkles out to power up, and some speed wrinkles are good.

Outhaul should not be full on.

Did you have the rotation sucked in tight too?

Bet the sail looked like a sheet of plywood.

Here's a link to a trim sheet for a H18. I'm sure there are more.

http://www.fleet297.org/PDFs/Hobie18TuningGuide.pdf

Edited by nacra55 on Jun 10, 2015 - 07:19 PM.

Block to block on a H18, I didn't know that was possible. That's a hobie 16 thing.

Cunningham (downhaul) should be just getting the wrinkles out to power up, and some speed wrinkles are good.

Outhaul should not be full on.

Did you have the rotation sucked in tight too?

Bet the sail looked like a sheet of plywood.

Here's a link to a trim sheet for a H18. I'm sure there are more.

http://www.fleet297.org/P…s/Hobie18TuningGuide.pdf

Guess it really depends which way you are pointing.

Here's from the sheet you supplied. Fact is: I was in the water 3 hours on multiple tracks, with multiple sheet adjustments and the hull never left the water. Again, the jib was not deployed. Last week with crew, and wind the same, the hull never left the water. How lightweight are you guys? I was also not out on the trap.

Moderate Air
Main Mast rotation Point at leeward shroud.
Downhaul Tight (set with main sheeted normally).
Outhaul Bottom batten 0" to 1" draft.
Traveler Centered.
Mainsheet Tight.
Jib Luff Tension Just tight (set on beach with main sheeted for conditions, see above).
Traveler Near the rear of the traveler to open the slot.
Jib Sheet Tighter in smooth water - Ease in choppy water.
Tiller Steer so that leeward tell tale below H is flowing but on verge of stalling.
Balance Crew and skipper on windward hull and forward, boat level.

Notice: BOAT LEVEL

Minicat comes with oars and you can sail with oars on board. Can take packed boat on airliner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-f9PwbsppQ

And a hobie wave will walk away from it.

Found another one: but with solid hulls... car topper.. http://www.x-cat.com/

To me boats are very much like musical instruments. Irrespective of the kind of instrument, if you get alternative junk you will most likely end up hating music rather than learning and enjoying anything. These last two toys that you shown will never be nearly as decent as your laser in my opinion, same as a decent wood recorder will play real music but a bamboo sax from the craft fair just won't. Now you want to play electric guitar instead of flute. That's fine. Just try to get a real one, that's all I'm saying.

I would say that you don't know what you are really looking for, you are relying on the assumption that you need two hulls for some reason, but these small cats would take you far away from what most of us assumed were your motivations to choose a catamaran. I would dig into that in the first place if I were you.

A decent cat will provide speed and excitement. But planning on a monohull is really exciting too. A toy cat will give you none of that, sooner or later you will feel embarrassed of having spent your money on that, I'd say. I used to sail a katyak when I was a kid (long ago..), trust me.. that wasn't sailing. I enjoyed it a lot of course. Toys are fun if you don't add wrong expectations. But when we changed to Laser II, after the very first acceleration, before even fully sheeting in, I understood immediately how miserable we were before. And, as with real musical instruments, we never reached perfection, there was always room for learning and refining, and there's such a lot of fun on that too. A toy will never give you that either.

Google the "frankenlaser", that could perhaps be an option for you:
- Solo
- Mobility
- Enjoy modifying it and reinventing at your will
- Wait until you get it planning on 15 or 20 knots... that will be REAL fun and real sailing. Very comparable to speeding your H18 in my experience.

Edited by Andinista on Jun 11, 2015 - 12:30 PM.

And as it would be cheap, maybe you could consider to keep your H18 for multiple day trips.

To me boats are very much like musical instruments. Irrespective of the kind of instrument, if you get alternative junk you will most likely end up hating music rather than learning and enjoying anything. These last two toys that you shown will never be nearly as decent as your laser in my opinion, same as a decent wood recorder will play real music but a bamboo sax from the craft fair just won't. Now you want to play electric guitar instead of flute. That's fine. Just try to get a real one, that's all I'm saying.

I would say that you don't know what you are really looking for, you are relying on the assumption that you need two hulls for some reason, but these small cats would take you far away from what most of us assumed were your motivations to choose a catamaran. I would dig into that in the first place if I were you.

A decent cat will provide speed and excitement. But planning on a monohull is really exciting too. A toy cat will give you none of that, sooner or later you will feel embarrassed of having spent your money on that, I'd say. I used to sail a katyak when I was a kid (long ago..), trust me.. that wasn't sailing. I enjoyed it a lot of course. Toys are fun if you don't add wrong expectations. But when we changed to Laser II, after the very first acceleration, before even fully sheeting in, I understood immediately how miserable we were before. And, as with real musical instruments, we never reached perfection, there was always room for learning and refining, and there's such a lot of fun on that too. A toy will never give you that either.

Google the "frankenlaser", that could perhaps be an option for you:
- Solo
- Mobility
- Enjoy modifying it and reinventing at your will
- Wait until you get it planning on 15 or 20 knots... that will be REAL fun and real sailing. Very comparable to speeding your H18 in my experience.

Edited by Andinista on Jun 11, 2015 - 12:30 PM.

I totally understand what you are talking about. Plus the toys I mentioned are not cheap by any means. I tried looking for Laser II long before thinking of catamaran but they're hard to find. Thanks for the intro to Frankenlaser! Not sure about excessive pressure on the mast step! I think I should simply stay with H18 through the season and give it a chance as some have suggested. I'm now getting more interest with people wanting to go out etc. so having help will offset the labor involvement. Besides: I've not mastered this boat so there's still more to learn including how to right it. I at least want to try using my righting pole to see if it works. I think the Wave would be a strong consideration especially since 1) its backed by major manufacturer who will most likely be around for years, 2) parts availability 3) resale value etc. Thanks for all the help and input.

But like motorcycles, ones for different purposes, you can't have too many boats either...

About mast step, i don't think so, you need stays and i'd add diamond wires. Basically a Laser II Set up. Easy to make if you don't find a used one. The extrusion would be straight but it works.