New guy with recently bought Nacra 5.2!!

Golfdad,
Hey man I gotta wholeheartedly disagree with you. I have only sailed this boat a couple five times now but I have watched my wife and kids sit up on the front of the hulls like they were riding a rocking horse dragging their feet in the water as we sailed across the lake. My wife is tall and around 145 lbs and my two daughters are like nine and four years old. I noticed NO real difference in the way the boat was riding other than the drag of their feet in the water slowing the boat down. Now I agree that if the wind is really kicking and you are flying a hull I might not want them up there simply due to safely reasons. I do not however agree that there is not enough flotation up there. I mean usually when you look at videos of the nacra 5.2 the back end of the boat is lower down in the water than the front is. I also looked at that G-cat in a video and it did not appear to ride any lower in the front. Again I also want to re-iterate that this front tramp is solely for my kids and my gear to ride on. My wife and I will be back on the regular tramp doing the sailing thing....

It is not whether I am gonna do this or not, it will get done as time permits. MY only questions are as to the best ways to arrive at a working safe setup. Right now My best idea is to machine two plates to mate to the hulls just north of the non-skid area on top of the hulls. For The crossbar I intend to use some 80/20 or larger extruded aluminum bar. This will allow different attatchments for rigging of lines as well as other things and as I said before it has a slot for a bolt to slide in that I will attempt to use to capture the front end of the tramp in the same manner that a mainsail attatches to the mast. The rear of the tramp I am still working on. It will most likely be a few carefully drilled holes in the main beam with some standoffs that will hold a solid stainless rod that I can make the tramp shock chords around to tension it up. I would think four or five 3/8 inch holes would be more than enough across the span of the main tube to accept the rod. I might just use some stainless eyelets and put a stainless rod in there and tack them in place and then remove the assembly and bring it back into the shop to weld it up right. I am thinking that some pieces of stainless round stock lathe turned and then cut into pie slices and then drilled and tapped to make nuts for the eyelets inside the main tube should work but it would be a pain to get the nuts in place. I am still working on that.

Damon, I like the idea of the re-using another beam from another boat but honestly I have seen so few of these boats around here that finding one would be a major undertaking and the 80/20 is readily available and VERY rigid and lightweight for it's size.

That G-cat seems to be a very similar boat to the nacra altho it has hulls shaped more like a hobie 16... They were able to make that work it appears, I wonder how many of those boats are out there like that...
This is what I am after really....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKuMokmDWKM

It seems that the Hobie getaway is 16' 7" long very similar to my nacra altho it is made of plastic I guess. The way that the kids were riding up front like that while the older folks were out back looks like a perfect setup for a fun day out on the lake. When I want to really rip, the kids will not be on the boat anyways until they are a little older. Most of the sailing we will be doing will be like in this video.... I honestly think that this is totally doable and even practical..

I was sincerely hoping someone else had tried this on their boat or any boat other than the Hobie Getaway because it just seems like such a simple and easy modification and it would make the boat so much more usable. Everything has it's drawbacks such as if I do manage to pitchpole the boat sometime the extra tramp will act as another sail trying to keep the boat upside down. It also makes for more of a sail to kinda force the boat upward when flying a hull so you would probably be more likely to flip it over. The upside is obviously more room and a more usable boat and IMHO I think if properly done the extra beam would make for a more rigid setup on the hulls and perhaps aid in the stress on the hulls in rougher waters due to them being held together more rigidly. I am NO engineer but I have built all sorts of things over the years and this is just my opinion. Worst case scenario, it is a total dismal failure and I must remove it and patch some holes up front in a boat that already has several patched holes in it. Thanks for all of your concern and ideas and if anyone has a good suggestion about the best way to secure these plates to the front hulls in the most secure way I would love to hear about it... peace

Pete

Edited by petefromtn on Aug 03, 2011 - 08:38 AM.

Pete, its walls here the other new guy with a 5.2. At my local lake the wind howls daily! Latley i've been crewing offshore
preparing for a race around anacapa island . Still skippering my 5.2 three days a week out at the lake,mast up storage for another month.but i agree with golfdad,after being on the wire on a prindle 18.2 and a dart when i get back on my 5.2 i'm constantly having my crew (drunk friends) shift there weight towards the rear.As youre pace picks up the leeward bow rides lower ,now that i've taken a few rides with (yoda-jedi-cat-master) and buried the hulls a few times
the last thing I would want would be weight forward of the beam. anyways in light wind with the family,my direction would be a very temporary set up that way in a pinch lets say the wind picks up you could get everything back.After spending hours on the wire in the santa barbara channel i've become very fond of foot straps!!!Getting wraped around the dolphin striker hurts!! ON most of the 5.2 i've seen with straps the skippers rear foot strap is behind the aft beam
that gave me a idea of proper weighting , I know my grammer sucks I'm no writer i hope you get what i'm trying to say
think about a temp set up try it out i think you will reconsider buy the way have an extra dagger board you want to sell? on a beam reach pull boards up 20%

walls
one board willie(nacra5.2)

No man I do not have any extra anything for this boat which sucks really.. I guess I am gonna hafta disagree with both of you then, As I said I have watched my wife AND kids ride the hulls up front on the boat and the flotation was never a problem. I just got off the phone with a hobie dealer earlier today asking about the getaway and how strong the front tramp is. He basically told me that the front is more of a storage area altho kids and light adults can ride up there. The front tramp was never designed to hold the weight of a full size adult. Mine will be much the same with just enough strength to hold my kids and maybe a cooler or so...

Once I get it finished I will post you guys some pics of it out on the lake. AS I said I am quite sure it will work, I am not saying it will not ride lower in the water with the kids up there, of course it will... What I AM saying is that I do not see it as a problem. The extra storage space alone will be worth the effort and if the kids can ride up there getting their butts wet thru the webbing having fun then it will be a winner in my book. I am trying to source materials right now for it. I have some current projects that I am working on for my friends Recumbent bike business that is taking some time. I am making a weld fixture for the bikes and once it is finished I just need to tig up these frames for him and I should have some spare time then... We shall see how it goes. Again As I said worst case scenario it DOES NOT work, all I gotta do is remove it and patch some screw holes... I see no down side... Everyone is always skeptical of new things. Unless you can show me someone who has done exactly what I am proposing and it was a dismal failure I would prefer to hear ideas about how to make it work the best..... peace

Pete

Hey Pete did'nt mean to bum you out.No one likes a nay sayer !Just remember if you fly windward hull even a foot leebow goes down bubble.And i'm into it cooler yeah!

walls

Walls,
No worries man, altho I am not quite sure what the heck you are talking about with the leebow and down bubble. IS this a submarine? Are you from Australia? I am just trying to get the most enjoyment and sail time out of this old boat and I see this as a great way to accomplish just that... Peace

Pete

Pete go ahead and knock yourself out. By the way is your boat all fiberglass or do you have foam core?

Pete, a friend in Ocean Springs is going to send me pics of his Prindle 18 with a front tramp. I haven't seen it but I think it's a full front tramp using a third beam and custom made tramp.

He's also installed Getaway wings on the boat.

Damon,
Yeah man now we are talking.... I would love to see some real pics of a properly retrofitted front tramp on another boat. Also those wings are a project on the roster for me too... I am pretty pleased with the boat so far and it is pretty fast in light winds. I imagine adding just a tad bit of weight carefully will not seriously affect the performance too badly. Besides anything I can do to make going sailing more comfortable and more fun for the family is gonna be better for everyone.

Golfdad,
I am gonna take that comment in the positive way I hope it was meant to be, Hopefully I will not literally knock myself out. I fabricate stuff like this every day of my life so I know I can do it. The end result will hopefully speak for itself. As Far as the hulls, I have only had the boat a week or three now and the only look inside the hulls I got was when I first bought it removing the access ports. I did not see anything but a hollow hull made of fiberglass... Hopefully that is a good thing....

A friend of mine said that he has used some sort of rivet nuts on fiberglass before. Basically it is a large rivet that mushrooms and inside it is a steel nut. I dunno how well these would hold in fiberglass but it sure sounded promising. Any other ideas about securing these mounting plates to the hulls would be most welcome... peace

Pete

Yes it just an expression to go ahead. Kinda of like break a leg to an actor. good luck with the project.

Wow bummer man,
I was outside working on the Nacra today and noticed that the rivet bolts that hold the rudder arms to the tie rod are kinda worn out and one is half cracked. I guess I am gonna hafta get some stainless steel fasteners to replace them with. Anyone else had this problem? Also what is a privmatic rudder system? I am trying to get this boat setup the best I can and while it is old there is a lot of good things about it. I am thinking that a simple stainless bolt going thru the other way with a nylock stainless nut on the inside of that tie rod fitting should work but anyone else have any suggestions? I suppose I will do both sides just to be sure... peace

Pete

I have only had the boat a week or three now...

Yet he seems to know more than people who have been sailing for years.

Dude, Pete - you come on here asking for advice and then you shoot years of experience down for your engineering skills and 3 weeks sailing expertise. I think the people suggesting it isnt a good idea have the safety of you and your family in mind and maybe you should consider heeding their advice. We don't want to have to read a follow-up to this thread about the time your boat pitch-poled with your wife and kid lying up in the forward tramp you constructed. Hopefully the story would just be a bunch of wet people - everyone IS sailing with PFDs on, right?

If you look at some of the other 5.2 threads on here your 5.2 is meant to sail with the leeward hull regularly digging under the water. With all that weight forward(100 lbs on a small boat makes a BIG difference) you're really throwing off the balance of the boat and asking for trouble. I'm guessing that the times you've sailed with people sitting on the hulls the winds were very light and you were sailing traveled out & sheeted out - iow - very conservatively. The winds won't always stay light and can come up quickly without warning & can gust wildly - especially on a lake.

Now if you choose to ignore the advice of a lot of seasoned veterans, well, don't say we didn't tell you so...peace

-Scott

A pivmatic rudder system is a device that kicks your rudders up when you hit the botttom (or anything else) The cost is around 60 dollars each and the savings is more. I did not have them and hit an oyster shell bank going about 8 knots. It ripped the gudgeons out of the transom. Now a weekend of fiberglass work. I would reccomend this as your first add on. Make sure you get the ones with the metal jam cleat. Very easy to install maybe 10 minutes. Murrays has them.

Scott,
Dude, Perhaps you did not fully read the thread.... I have been sailing Catamarans since I was a kid. Mostly a hobie 14 back in Florida and I have been out on rental cats down in Miami several times out in the ocean. I have also sailed Hobie 16's a few times on Lake wellington in South Florida. SO the comment about me having the boat only a week or three is pertaining to THIS boat. Also I have been around boats all my life from when I was little as I grew up in South Florida fishing and skiing with my parents and grandparents. I also spent five years in the United States Coast Guard so I think I know a thing or two about water and boats. The only questions I have here are related to this PARTICULAR boat as it is the First Nacra 5.2 I have owned. The comments I make here are from my personal experience of what I have seen of the boat and the videos I have watched on youtube.

I came on here to learn about the boat and to look for information about modifications I wish to make to it. There are a couple people who said they would not do it. That is fine, I take it under advisement, however there has also been conversation about ways to better this boat for my uses. Such as moving the jib rigging underneath the tramp as well as some other good suggestions. I welcome them all good or bad as long as they are made kindly.

Scott if I have offended you somehow, While I do not see how, I apologize.... However at the same time consider that even someone relatively new to the forums may have something to add. I do not doubt you are a much more experienced sailor than I am, as well as some others on this forum. So far I have gotten the boat with my family on board around the lake and back safely several times, even went thru a nasty squall and the only casualties were some worn out parts of the boat.

If my enthusiasm for modding my boat even in light of others recommendations not to offends people on here than I will just not post here anymore. I only wanted to learn from others about these particular mods.

Golfdad,
Thanks for that information. I need to research what they actually look like. Mine had shock chords going thru the rudder tubes and then into a hole on the rudder itself to help bring it up. Holding it down apparently consists of a line going into the bottom of the cam of the upper part of the rudder and then thru the housing to a cleat up near the tie rod that you can tension the rope with generally keeping it held down. My biggest gripe with the rudder system is that there is not a good way to keep them vertical while trailering. I made some welding rod keepers that hold them up against the tube but a good pothole in the road and they bounce enough to allow them to fall. The PO had them tightened down REALLY tight so they did not fall hardly at all and putting them back down when you launch the boat was a pain... Thanks for the tips man.. peace

Pete

Here is a picture. http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=35637 the red ball/red line is the rudder pull up. It goes through the hole in the rudder ( where the bungee was) and comes back to a jam cleat on the rudder arm. The green ball/white line goes through the pivmatic. Notice the carbon sleeve on the rudder arm. It pivots backward when your rudder strikes something, releasing the line and thus the rudder. I use the rudder pull up when trailering with a real strong flat bungee.
There are good pictures on the beachcats photo albums that will help. Wolfman in the people section and this pic in the technical section.
On the other issue let that horse die. If you want to, go ahead.

Cool man that is exactly what mine looks like, Only I was not aware of how it actually worked. How to you keep it up? Is that red line strong enough to go to the rudder top hole and keep it up while trailering? Mine had the bungees inside it but it has that jam cleat and pin and the floating U shaped bit as your picture shows. I just got back from the hardware store with some new stainless bits for my tie rod arm. It seems like the rivets were all worn out and mushroomed. The great news is that the store local to me has tons of linear footage of bungee material, webbing, even rigging lines including stainless... I was kinda shocked... I cannot wait to get some measurements of the trapeze setups and pick up some thin bungee material to keep them from flopping around . I was eyeing the webbing and harness stuff they had there to see if I could fabricate a simple trapeze harness for myself and my wife. I have an industrial sewing machine here might as well use it right... peace

Pete

Hi guys,
I just bought '81 Nacra 5.2. It's a "project" boat and i have to put all the parts together. I'm puzzled what the jib leads (cam blocks) are ATTACHED TO. There are two SMALL padeyes on the hulls and two on the front beam - but they look little weak to hold full load of the jib sheet. Looked at some pictures showing lines going through grommets in the tramp - but again - where do they go from there? Would appreciate any tips or comments.
Andrew

On the original set up the jib leads run from pad eyes on the front beam to a pad eve on the rear beam (the pad eyes are above the tramp). A modification some do is move the pad eyes under the tramp and run the jib leads under the tramp. The jib leads come above the tramp for about 16 inces and then back under to the front beam. Those pad eyes are below the tramp.

Is that red line strong enough to go to the rudder top hole and keep it up while trailering?

Yes but would I trust it , no. I use a flat bungee and attach it to the boat.

Golfman,
I agree, what I have done is taken some Stainless 1/8 inch Tig welding rods and made hooks out of the ends of them to fit into the little hole in the top of the rudder that used to accept the bungee chord and then made it long enough to run up to the front of the rudder tube and I put the hook inside the end of the tube. It actually works pretty good but if you hit a real nasty pothole it has popped out and the rudders can then fall down. It takes quite a bump to do it and has only happened when I was in a real hurry to get to the lake. I also recently tightened the hooks a bit and it has not happened since.

How is your Trapeze lines bungeed off to the boat on your nacra? I found a good local source for the bungees and I am gonna buy some for the trap lines as well as make the side loaders for my dagger boards. My plan is to use some of their heaviest bungees and buy some surgical tubing to run inside and then to the two grommets on the tramp. This should be simple and strong hopefully enough to keep them in position. My boat has some interesting setups I suppose because it is older one. The main crossbeam where the mast sits has two of the jam cleats on top on each side and there is a pair of pulleys built into the ends of the tube one on each side. I am not sure what these are for? I looked at the manual but it is unclear to me what they are for. I almost wonder if they are for the trapeze and use one long bungee going thru the tube to each side and up to the trap wires. I am gonna maybe use them for that and attach some hooks to the ends to secure to the trap lines. What kind of hooks are used for this? Perhaps a carribeaner and make an eyelet into the end of the bungee? Any information about this would be very helpful... Thanks and peace

Pete

Okay guys,
Made a trip to the very well appointed Hardware store locally here and was able to get some things for the Nacra. The First thing I wanted to get working was the sideloaders for the Daggerboards. I looked at some of the ideas on here I saw and came up with something simple and my own. I had a very hard plastic compressor hose I bought awhile back that was so rigid it was basically unusable. It has since been cut into several different pieces for different things. SO I bought some of their very nice heavy duty all black bungee chord in linear lengths enough to make the sideloaders. Basically my boat has three grommets near the edge of the tramp just inside of the daggerboard. I am not sure if this is what they are for but I ran the bungee into them and covered the bungee with this rigid hose to go around the edge of the daggerboard to keep it from cutting into the bungee. I just went out there and installed them on both sides and they seem to hold the boards up very well. I also replaced the knotted rope that was installed into the top of the board to keep it from falling down into the gap in the hulls which is what happened last time we went out. The new rope is much heavier and thicker so the knots are also larger hopefully keeping it out of the board well.

I also bought some thin all black bungee and some very cool heavy plastic hooks to make retainers for the trap lines to the boat. I was gonna run them into the little pulleys on the ends of the main beam and then fabricate an endcap like the original but it seems that the angle of the pulley and the direction of the bungee to the mast kinda puts it into a little pinch in the corner of where the pulley is to the aluminum corner of the beam. I am kinda afraid it will eventually cut the bungee on me. I considered putting another small padeye into the very top end of the main beam just inboard of the outboard stainless strap. Not sure if that is a good idea or not.

When I was underneath the boat tying the knots in the bungee chord for the sideloaders I noticed a very strange arrangement of very thin bungee and heavy thick rope. The thick rope went from the outboard ends of the main beam at two padeyes diagonally to the center of the rear beam in a vee shape to a pulley which attatched to a thin bungee that then ran back forward to the large bolt that is the stainless steel shaft for the mast ball and was wrapped around it many times. None of this was tight or even seemed to be purposeful at all. I temporarily removed it until I can figure out what it was. Also what is that little pulley on the back underside of the rear beam that is attatched to a padeye directly underneath the center of the traveller and mid beam? I cannot figure out what it is for....

Anyways, I also replaced some hardware in the rudder system and tightened up some things back there. I also took Golfdad's idea and replaced my Tig wire rudder keepers with some of the rubber heavy bungees to keep the rudders up while going down the road.

Now I wanted to buy all new rope line for the main and jib sheets and had it all measured and even picked out the right rope down at the hardware store. The lady actually told me that the large bundles that they had priced at like $50-150.00 each could not be broken up you had to buy them all!! I was like you gotta be kidding me right... Anyways, she said she will try to find me smaller lengths of the line I needed and call me back. We shall see. They had some very nice all black line there... I am trying to make the color scheme on the boat to be white , blue, and black. All of our Life Preservers are blue and black already so it just made sense. I need to find some blue or black line to make everything look professional and like I might possibly know what I am doing.

I am thinking I am gonna go with the poly paint on the hulls. That interlux brightside seems pretty good for the price. I may just give it a chance when I go to repaint the boat.

We are planning on taking the boat out to the local Sailing spot on Sunday and see how the new mods work. I am hoping for nice winds as the wind forcaster website I am using is saying gusts to 12 mph, Not much but better than nothing... Cannot wait to get the boat wet again... peace

Pete

Edited by petefromtn on Aug 06, 2011 - 03:54 PM.

petefromtn wrote: When I was underneath the boat tying the knots in the bungee chord for the sideloaders I noticed a very strange arrangement of very thin bungee and heavy thick rope. The thick rope went from the outboard ends of the main beam at two padeyes diagonally to the center of the rear beam in a vee shape to a pulley which attatched to a thin bungee that then ran back forward to the large bolt that is the stainless steel shaft for the mast ball and was wrapped around it many times. None of this was tight or even seemed to be purposeful at all. I temporarily removed it until I can figure out what it was. Also what is that little pulley on the back underside of the rear beam that is attatched to a padeye directly underneath the center of the traveller and mid beam? I cannot figure out what it is for....

Sounds like you are describing the Hawaiian Righting System, it's a method of having a long thick righting line that automatically pulls up tight underneath the tramp and out of the way.

This old thread will help explain it.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/11427

Damon,
Yessir, that is exactly what it was. I removed it all mostly because the lines and bungees were pretty old and worn out. I will replace it with some nice new line when I get my new main and jib sheet lines from that lady. I can see what it does not. It was NOT very tidy anyways and I think I can make the same thing only better this time. We shall see. Just got home from Church and was PLANNING to take the boat out but my wife is not feeling well right now so we may not go.... We will see if she feels any better in a bit... peace

Pete

Pete,

I know I have had to learn the hard way about a few things and several things I have done with my boat were 'not recommended'. Some of these worked out OK some just plain sucked so I tried something else. I've been away for a few weeks (likely to everyone's relief) or I would have jumped in myself on a few posts. The one thing I don't think you should compromise on is getting new shrouds and forestay asap on any older boat. You do not want the mast coming down on you EVER - that mast can kill you easily and at the very least will break bones.

About the front tramp. I tend to agree with Golfdad on that in anything over about 8 knots you NEED to get the weight back or the front hull will dig hard (or you have to travel out the main). Under that you can usually hug the front beams as long as you balance the back out with some weights. My own recomendation would be to do a simple mesh tramp maybe 2 ft wide and use mostly for storage of lightweigh objects and a platform to throw the kid onto in light air. Andrew on here has a front tramp on his Mystere that is useful for that purpose but isn't rigged to support someone walking on it.

As far as the wings, man if you can make them they are amazing! I was fortunate enought to find a pair of the old Nacra ones. I still have a bit of finnageling to do on them but I got out in 18 knot winds gusting to like 25 last weekend and sitting on the wings gave so much extra counterweight to the boat that we were just HOWLING. They are comfy and almost as much fun as trapesing. Next time I'm out at the cottage i can take some measuremets and angles and things if you like. The hardest part is the attachment to the beams (you can't manufactur the stock vulcanized rubber plugs by any means I am aware of).

Edited by Wolfman on Aug 07, 2011 - 04:54 PM.

Wolf,
Hey man I would LOVE to see some pics and have measurements of the wing seats. I am quite sure I can fabricate anything that is necessary for the boat. It is what I do...

as far as the Front Trapeze. I guess I gotta say it again, It is gonna get built. as time permits, and we shall see how it works. Again worst case scenario it needs to be removed or as you suggest shortened and I gotta fill some holes in the hull. Again I disagree here. I suppose I will just have to either prove all of you wrong or eat crow. Will not be the first time and probably not the last but this mod is just too valuable to me for the boat to not try it. It is as simple as that. I thank all of you for your input on it but as I said before I would MUCH more like to hear your ideas about HOW best to do it then more about why I should not. I can already see my kids riding up there in light winds having a blast... It is literally a done deal...

I would replace the stays on the mast but I am having trouble finding the stainless cabling for a REASONABLE price.. that stuff is pretty pricey. Is there a kit that you can get for it? Honestly having been told about this danger before I have inspected them quite a bit already and saw no rust or damage on any of the main lines. The Halyard that broke was actually repaired before and whoever did it was not experienced to do it right and it actually broke at the repair joint. I dunno... Peace

Pete

Pete, be careful on buying rope for your main and jib sheet at a hardware store. Salty Dog Marine has a kit for around 100 dollars to replace every line on your boat.
https://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=421&products_id=4001&osCsid=bcfa27b20d26afa45fb2ead42ef397a9
REASONABLE PRICE? Tell me when you find that animal.
Again you can get new shrouds at Salty Dog for $51 each.

Do it! Weather it works out or not, if you are willing to put in the effort I will be interested to see the results. Sometimes with a bit of tweaking you can make something work that other don't think will. I have to use my retractable boarding ladder as an example. A lot of people were skeptical that it could be made to work given the limited options and places to attach and store it. But I found a ladder that could be made to work, MacGyvered the install and now I don't know how I lived without it.

Thanks Golfdad I missed that! Note that the line sold at hardware stores is not very strong and extremely flexible. And the bungee cord is really low quality - will likely not last you a full season. I know it sounds kind of silly but you are better off purchasing the running rigging from a reputable marine store. There is nothing worse than your 40' mainsheet stretching out to 60' in a gale. I've seen it, get some of that stuff wet and try and sail with it, bad scene!

I would suggest using a relatively cheap low stretch poly line for all your lines - New England Sta-set is the standard. I buy all my line from Annapolis Performance Sailing, they have the best line selection and prices in the business. Not to mention some of the best customer service! Here is their line section http://www.apsltd.com/c-1485-line.aspx They also have high quality shock cord at the bottom.

The best part though is thier sail line section here: http://www.apsltd.com/c-4751-line.aspx I outfitted my whole boat with dyneema and vectran line for the same price as poly from this page.

Stock lengths for running rigging can be found here http://www.kosailing.com/assets/brand_pdfs/catalog_4.pdf

Also not that tying bungee/shock cord is a bad idea. The knots tend to work themselves loose very quickly (regardless of how you tie them it seems). You should use hog rings and hog ring pliers to secure bungee.

Cheap hog ring pliers: http://www.harborfreight.com/straight-hog-ring-pliers-3102.html

Hog rings http://www.apsltd.com/p-8939-100-hog-rings-for-14-shock-cord.aspx , or you can buy them induvidually at your local Grainger. That is also a good source for stainless rivets.

Finally here's the best trick for finishing the ends of tech line that doesn't melt, covering hog rings so they won't scratch or covering other sharp edges on wire rigging. Electrical Polyolefin heat shrink tube with hot glue inside http://www.harborfreight.com/42-piece-marine-heat-shrink-tubing-67598.html . It shrinks 3:1 (not 2:1 like regular heat shrink) and glues itself to the line. A $10 assortment will last you the rest of your life.

As far as standing rigging, if you know how old the rigging is, that it was run in fresh water only, have run your hand down every piece of the rigging without snagging a loose wire, inspected every inch for corrosion or crimps and found that it is all right I would maybe trust it for a season or two (with consenting adults only only the boat). Especially if it is less than 10 years old. However most boats of this vintage are sold with the original rigging, 30+years old. Even standing in the yard all the time the wire will degrade somewhat. I was pretty lucky, I ran my boat this way for a season and didn't dismast. Then I accidentally dropped my mast the next season while adjusting the rigging, saw what it could do and scared myself into buying new rigging.

I would suggest just going with the rigging packages offered by Murray's Marine or Salty Dog Marine. Those are easier, very likely cheaper and definitely more secure than making them yourself. If you are sailing in salt water, strip the PVC coating off so you can see any corrosion. If you are sailing only in fresh water, you can leave it on and just inspect the fittings periodically. Fresh water won't do much to the PVC coated wire, but the fittings are in contact and made up of dissimilar metals so they can corrode over time. Once you have replaced the wire rigging, make note of it. Replace again every 5-7 years (5 years for sure in salt) weather they look bad or not. Having a mast drop on you while sailing isn't something you ever want to expereince. Hopefully it will drop away from the boat but depending on how it occurs it is equally likely that it will drop backwards onto you. Especially if the forstay or a bridle lets go!

If you really want to make them yourself the cheapest way is with a swage it tool. http://www.apsltd.com/c-1636-hand-crimping-tool-by-swage-it.aspx Buy the big one! Your rigging is 5/32" dia and the small one won't work for that. Copper with zinc plating nicopress fittings (use 2 per end on each wire, don't trust 1). Use stainless thimbles at each fitting. Not sure where you can get the stainless wire cheap, maybe a local aerospace manufacturer? Remember that the key to the nicopress fitting is to compress the copper into the wire strandes so they essentially bond together. You can also get non-swaged sta-lok fittings that are just as secure but they are extremely expensive at about $50 per fitting.

Wow, now that's a post. I think everyone is now hoping I go back on vacation soon. 🙂

Thanks for the tips guys, I am no expert in lines and rigging for sailboats but this is NO ordinary Hardware Store. They actually have a MASSIVE selection of stainless Hardware for marine and other applications. Their selection of Shock lines is most impressive. The rope they sell is also quite an amazing selection. This is no HOME DEPOT here. It is a mom and pop store that carries just about anything you can imagine. In fact Most of the hardware I order I buy from Mcmaster Carr or MSC direct they also have it albeit at a slightly higher price. I go there often when I need something quick. It is just down the road from me too which is nice. The Bungee Chord I bought looks to be better quality than what was already on the boat.

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do. I am enjoying the boat and I just want to make it the very best it can be. What may not be good for you may be just right for the next guy and I am USUALLY that guy. I often try to be different and try new things and honestly that is what I do in my day job, fabricate all sorts of DIFFERENT things so I am used to it. Perhaps when you guys see the finished product you will feel differently and honestly there are a great many catamarans from what I see that have a forward tramp stock or custom on youtube. My goals for it again are to be able to load it up with my cooler, towels, all my kids stuff, and when we are having our typical 10 MPH winds days here have a place for the kids to sit and enjoy the ride while getting wet. Neither my wife nor I will probably ever go up there as we will be mostly doing the sailing work on the main tramp. This does not preclude the front hulls from doing their job punching thru waves and if you are thinking when the wind is cranking and you are hanging way out on the tramp pushing the edge the only thing up there will probably be the cooler!! Let's face it there is not enough room on the tramp on anything short of a 20 footer to be really useful for anything but sailing. The design I have in mind will not really affect the sailing traits of the boat in high winds situations as there will not be anyone on there at that time anyway. Try to think of it this way. I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. I want a fast Nacra ex-boy racer style catamaran that I can take out with my wife or alone when it is really windy and try to see just how fast I can go. Then on the other hand I want a comfortable cruiser that my wife and the kids and I can leisurely cruise around the lake on when the wind is not too bad. Does that make sense? I do not want another boat, The Hobie Getaway is almost as much as a decent used powerboat. and I really like the way the Nacra looks.... SO I am gonna try to make it the very best boat I can and at the same time make it more usable for my whole family. If all you do with your boat is race and take it out in a gale to try to push the limits then I completely understand why you would say this is a bad idea. That is three people of varying experience now that have said it is not the best idea so I GET that... Now FOR THE LAST TIME!! Please unless you have something constructive to add about HOW best to go about building this front tramp idea of mine then I do not want to hear about what a bad idea it is anymore. Alright....

The Cables of the mast both the stanchions( if that is what they are called) and the forestay look to be in good shape and YES I have personally inspected every inch as we have been taking ALL the rigging for the mast down after every trip and we coil it up on the tramp. If there was a broken wire I am quite sure my wife or I would have been cut by it by now. I also inspected the crimps on the eyelets near the top of the mast for corrosion or damage. So far I have not seen anything to be the least bit alarmed about. It appears that maybe someone has replaced them at least somewhat recently. I SERIOUSLY doubt they are nearly 30 years old like the rest of the boat. Honestly if you look at the pictures of the boat I think you can see that SOMEBODY loved it and at least took decent care of it. It looks used but not used up. I really think that when I get the hulls sanded a bit and then some nice new white on them it will look like a MUCH newer boat than it is.

It would really be nice to be able to order a package deal of rigging brand new from a pro-supplier for the boat since it theoretically would have the proper lines in the proper lengths for this boat and might actually save me some money. Again I was NOT able to buy the rope line for the boat from the lady at the hardware store because she basically wants to sell the large bundles she has there in whole pieces. I checked into that Murrays website and while they seem to have everything for the boat they are also pretty proud of their stuff and price it accordingly. I am gonna see what they have for Nacra 5.2 specific packages and maybe I can buy all of the stuff I need in one large package. I would really like to color coordinate the boat in white, blue, and black and I am working with my friend on graphics packages in those colors. We will see where this goes but right now I am just enjoying having a nice cat to go out on. Peace

Pete

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do.

I do not think thin skinned is the proper term. We are just trying to save you money, time, grief, and possibly injury. Instead you have argued at every turn. Good luck to you.

golfdad75 wrote:

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do.

I do not think thin skinned is the proper term. We are just trying to save you money, time, grief, and possibly injury. Instead you have argued at every turn. Good luck to you.

I do not see where I have argued at every turn at all, In fact I was quite appreciative of your help over the phone. It is sad that you feel this way.

I guess I have overstayed my welcome here.... Good luck to all of you and thanks for the advice. peace

Pete

Pete,
If you are still around, don't take things too personally on here. People like myself, Golfdad and prelives are genuinely concerned for your safety based on our experience - some of us just express ourselves differently. We are generally pretty laid back here compared to any other sailing forum, (just go over to sailing anarchy to see 😉 ). We all have our own opinions. And pretty much everyone on here is a stickler for new standing rigging, weather you feel you need to change it or not it's your choice. Sorry if I offended I just wanted to make sure you knew how serious we take inspecting that rigging and what to look for if you didn't know.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a front tramp or modding your boat to suit your style. Like I said I have done plently of things that were ill recommended, some worked some didn't, no harm done in the end. Most of us have been through similar pain however, so we tend to point out the pitfalls. I try to be as positive as possible but I also overshare like nobodies business. You don't have to take my advice but I give it anyway, especially on running and standing rigging because I have wasted a pile o money on different things until I found what worked for me. McMaster Carr is a good source for boat stuff (I can't get it delivered here in Canada unfortunately) it generally sells much of the same hardware as you will find at a marine store, clevis pins, stainless rivets, ring dings, etc. You can probably get the wire, swager and fittings from them to make new rigging just fine. Murray's is not cheap, but it is cheaper and easier to buy the Nacra 5.2 rigging package from them or Salty Dog than any other rigger. What you can get from a rigger is custom specced rigging for your boat.

Hopefully you will change your mind and stay with us. There is a lot of info, advice and ideas to be had and probably the largest group of Nacra 5.2 owners in North America. Best to just let this thread go and start fresh, and don't worry too much about weather we agree with you or not. Take the advice for what its worth and do what you think is best for you.

Regards,
Dave