We have supersoft sand here and I can promise those plastic wheels would sink right down. E
Which is why I brought up the quality of sand here:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/15522/start/0#pid55520
Probably good to beach launch when the parking lot is filled with cars and people. This way you can pull some help from curious onlookers. Perhaps even offer rides for help.
Is this a community sport....
Looks like these guy's have it down in how to move a boat..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpsuQe5zg0
I built a set for myself. IMO, they are pretty darn close to the real thing in weight and performance. Delrin bearings would make the difference for me. I use them most of the time now. They cost me about $300 to build. If I added my skilled larbor in machining and TIG welding, They would cost more than the Sailcraft Wheels.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/14435/start/0
The link also includes a weight comparison, my wheels currently weigh 11lbs more than most Cat-trax. All of that weight is in the tires alone with are substantially heavier than the smooth ones. That 11lbs is pretty dang noticeable after a hard days sailing.
Using steel hubs and axle would push the weight up FAST! I would advise you weigh the wheel/tire combo your looking at before you start.
I have been able to purchase several used sets at $250 or less which is by far the best way to go.
Here's what I'm thinking
Rims
http://www.mfgsupply.com/az1006.html
Hub:
http://www.bmikarts.com/4-x-4-Billet-Aluminum-Idler-Hub-34-or-1-ID-Bearing_p_1644.html
Nanco wheels same ones on Cattrax
Or buy the tractor supply rims& wheels with 20 x 10 x 8 tires and use the above hub. These tires are rated at 1,000lbs whereas the nanco are 350lbs..
Not sure about weight and then again its the combined weight on axle not weight of axle making impressions on the sand. For instance, if you removed the mast the whole thing is 50lbs lighter etc.
Edited by goodsailing on Apr 06, 2015 - 07:08 AM.
I would not be concerned at all with the tire rating, I would be very concerned though with the 1" axle. I have had a couple sets of wheels that had slightly bent axles from the weight of a 400lb boat. Mostly happened when pushing boats up, over, and off of obstacles. Even a nice beach often have some humps and bumps in the dunes. That was with a 2" .120" wall axle. A 1" (solid?) axle would be hard pressed to survive in such conditions.
The weight of the wheels themselves is only a concern for the person that has to carry them around. Sometimes you have to haul them a long ways, you really start to feel those pounds when you have to carry them back up a boat ramp to lock to your trailer.
As I said before, my wheels are currently about 50lbs or 10lbs more than the factory trax. You really feel that difference when you have to carry them. Luckily I am a bigger and younger guy and can deal with it enough to not bother changing the tires out yet. If they weighed another 10lbs, I think that would really bother me.
There are no 2" bore hubs that will fit a 4 bolt 4 circle rim.. the reason you machined one.
4130 aircraft tubing, 1" .156 wall is pretty stiff, 1.4 lb per foot. It's used for aircraft. BUT as you say...would it support 400lb boat. Wouldn't you put a lasso around the wheels and pull it back and forth, not carry it... so it's about carrying the wheels, not weight of axle has on going through sand.. OK...Need a dolly for the beach wheels perhaps.. 😆
Check this site out, pretty cool tool to compare the stiffness of different tubes.
Check this site out, pretty cool tool to compare the stiffness of different tubes.
That is cool.
I took a 3 ft section of 1" 4130 and put it between 2 bricks and held 50lbs (250lbs total) while standing on it. Didn't budge. Still not sure it would hold boat.
Here's the dilemma. If I go steel rims, aluminum 1" hubs and nanco tires and it doesn't work I'm out $300. The wheels probably wouldn't be worth anything to anyone else so I'd be out $300. If I bought the lawn mower wheels and tires 20 x 10 x 8 and it didn't work, I probably could sell the wheels and tires.. so I'd be out perhaps $200... there seems to be much discussion about lawn mower wheels not working, yet no one has mention the size of the tire on the lawn mower wheel that didn't work. I saw J. Deer tires in Lowes yesterday sporting 21 11's Buying the cattrax, I'd be out $250, provided I could sell them down the road for half of what I paid. Decisions, decisions, not knowing exactly the type of sand I might be facing as I intend to travel up and down the East coast launching my boat.
Goodsailing,
The whole homemade beach wheel thing is fun but for your specific situation with a Hobie 18 launching from boat ramps, you may not need wheels at all.
I have a set but only use them down on the Gulf Coast when I need to move my H18 a good distance across soft sand to leave it on the beach overnight. Or those rare locations where there is no ramp and you need to drop the boat directly on the sand and have a distance to the water.
At my home lake and places where I am day sailing and there is a ramp I don't use them at all.
So go sailing for a while this season and see how many times you wish you had wheels. I sailed Hobie 18's for at least 12 years without beach wheels.
____________
Damon Linkous
Well here's the beach:
@39.013041,-76.395379,147m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0"> https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B00 0'47.0%22N+76%C2%B023'43.4%22W/@39.013041,-76.395379,147m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
They have ramp to the sand... then sand to the water... 60' or so stretch.
Now here's the boat ramp. Notice how you have to go from boat ramp along the BAY BRIDGE to get to the water. Nearly impossible to sail that. Rock jetti on one side and bay bridge on the other via the channel from pond to Chesapeake Bay.
@39.012933,-76.401068,587m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0"> https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B00 0'46.6%22N+76%C2%B024'03.8%22W/@39.012933,-76.401068,587m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
The reason I'm thinking beach wheels.
They have overnight trailer parking here. Which is a good thing
Edited by goodsailing on Apr 07, 2015 - 01:47 PM.
The reason I'm thinking beach wheels.
Looks like you are definitely in the " drop the boat directly on the sand and have a distance to the water " category.
Carry on.
Major plus is that looks like a great place to launch and sail a beachcat!
____________
Damon Linkous
CatsailorMike wrote: goodsailing...just my $.02 for what it's worth. made these almost 10 years ago and haven't had any problems here on our sandy beach.yeah they can pull harder than "official" beach wheels but it works for me
That is great. I think I will try the same.
The area were I will be sailing is soft sand. I got the Laser dolly stuck there (lawn mower wheels) and couldn't get the boat to the water. Cat is even heavier. Hence, conditions might determine which way you go with this. It would be nice to have every set, and see which DIY wheels work best for your particular area. I hate to invest, then have a particular style not work, then have to put good money after bad to make ones that will work. The nanco's should work anywhere...
we know, we know we can just buy cat trax, but then we'd loose out in all the fun we're having trying to reinvent the wheel. 😆
Edited by goodsailing on Apr 08, 2015 - 03:57 PM.
If you invest in Catrax beach wheels, you will be investing in something that will work everywhere. Reinvent the wheel on something that's not going to ruin a trip to the beach and/or throw out your back leading to even more unintended financial loss. My $0.02
I've built two set's of beach wheels. If you have the materials and the wheels and tires, give it a go. I also have a set of catrax's and can say they out preform the sets I make and were worth what I paid. I'm very happy with my second set that I built, but I really just copied the catraxs right down to the bearings.
but I really just copied the catraxs right down to the bearings.
Where are you guys getting the rims and the hubs (2" bore) for the nanco's tires?
This thread is getting so dumb............ best bet ( and cheaper ) is to spend $ 80 a month with a personal trainer to condition you to "haul"your boat the beach by hand
Edited by fxloop on Apr 08, 2015 - 10:02 PM.
condition you to "haul"your boat the beach by hand
I wonder if you set your boat on mylar sheets, you could glide it across sand. Don't laugh. (See videos of Everglades Challenge how guy's get their heavier than Hobie Cat boats off the sand to the water.) You may even be able to cut skis from stiff yet pliable plastic with slots out front to tie rope handle. Slip them under the hulls and haul away. Weight would be distributed throughout the entire length of the hull. They could be called Cat Skis! Or Cat Sled...hmmmm
Or use logs:
This thread is getting so dumb
I agree wholeheartedly! :wallbash:
Check this site out, pretty cool tool to compare the stiffness of different tubes.
At second glance, this is for square tubing, which may not be as strong as round tube.
I found this one. It might be good to calculate stress along an 8' span of 4130 for axle.
Not knowing beach conditions I decided to go with the rubber tires. I did seriously consider the plastic dock wheels as that would have been half the cost of what I will pay...
Do the cat trax tires have inner tubes or are they tubless? If tubes, do you have the TR-6 stem, that allows the stem to remain stationary, not get pulled back into the rim? It seems with such low operating pressure might not allow for proper seating of the tire bead to the rim, hence the need for inner tube at added weight.
My tires came and they are each 10.5 lbs.
So we're up to 21lbs.
Yet to come: Hubs, rims, and axle (and possible inner tubes should tubeless not hold air) are being delivered.
Cradles in the making: Oven heated water pipe and pressed on hulls to cool. Thinking now of bracket arrangement.
The steel rims came and were not as heavy as I thought. After getting stems, from my tire guys, (they said they couldn't put the tires on), I managed to get the rubber on the rims but was unable to seat the beads. I tried believe me with ratchet strap etc. So I took them down to the gas station where I know the guys and in 5 mins they had the rubber on there. I had them fill to 10lbs. Pretty solid. No charge... Wow. I brought them home and weighed them. 18lbs each. So we're up to 36 lbs thus far for rubber and rims. I wasn't sure if these rims had zero offset or not, but came through with several inches offset.
Waiting for hubs...
Forgot to mention: no inner tubes necessary.
Edited by goodsailing on Apr 14, 2015 - 06:55 PM.
After speaking with the lady who said she had the steel tube I set out to the place I visited a couple of years ago about an hour away. When I pulled up to the door I noticed the sign: CLOSED. Hmmmm was she out to lunch perhaps. A man in the adjacent shop came from the garage door and greeted me. I asked where she was and he said: They're closed. The firm that bought the business took the inventory and also the phone number. I bowed my head and said: I just spoke with her... He said: yea she's 1000 miles from here. I mentioned how far I just came.. then I said: did they leave anything. He said: yea, there's some tubing left. We entered the building, a place I had been in before. The place smelled like steel. There was some old equipment there.. you know, a place where once men worked.. you felt it. I asked the man if he had a rule. He grabbed a rule from a desk and we went up stairs to where there was some steel. Nope,, a few pieces too thin. We went back down stairs and I looked in another bin and low and behold, the tag said: 1". I pulled it out and it was 106 " more than enough for my axle. I said: this is it. This is what I came for. I asked him what he wanted for it. He said: How about two bucks. I said: deal. I gave him the money and I put it in my car and came home. Lucky she didn't say: we've moved or I wouldn't have taken the trip--just ordered from her and then have to pay freight. I expected to pay over $100 for the axle, so it only cost $2... a good day today
Waiting for the hubs..
Edited by goodsailing on Apr 16, 2015 - 07:06 PM.
You got to love a day that starts out great,turns to crap then ends on a high note!!
I can't decide if you both stole it or you paid a guy $2 for stolen goods?- either way, ... enjoy 🙂
MN3
I can't decide if you both stole it or you paid a guy $2 for stolen goods?- either way, ... enjoy 🙂
aaaah yes... glad you picked up on that. The person who let me in the shop was a family member who formally had nothing to do with the steel when they were selling it there. Most of the stuff there was junk, that the new owner didn't want. Rusted machine equipment etc. I just happened to pull a piece from rusty bin that was coated pretty heavy with oil which had little to no surface rust. Now that I think of it, I might have loaded more...for other projects... they probably want it gone! The buyer isn't coming back etc..
You got to love a day that starts out great,turns to crap then ends on a high note!!
Got that right Onekiwi
Here's the short axle for my modified A Cat hull. The 4 bolt hubs work great with the 1" collars. I had to grind some of the tubing down as it was a few mm too thick so that the 1" bearings would fit on the tube. Pretty slick. I'll show the long axle one for the H18 once I move this hull (80lbs) to another part of the property for sanding..
Just wondering, has anyone tried using pool noodles for the hull rests. I picked up 2 4" pool noodles in Walmart yesterday. They have about a 1" hole in the center. Just thinking these could work instead of cradles shown above, which will require making a bracket of some sort...
I have lined wooden hull crates (2' x 2' frames with hull shapes cut out) with pool noodles to avoid scratches but they have a limited lifespan in the fl sun and didn't holdup for long (and IMHO they would never handle repetitive use)
MN3