Best Cat for Crazy Sailing

Colin, whatever you get. Do your mum and dad, girlfriend etc, a favor and get one you can right by yourself. I'm 200lbs and can right my Nacra 5.2 solo, but it doesn't fly a hull fast enough for what you describe. A guy at my club with an FX complains about the same problem. Maybe and old A-cat would fit the bill, but I've seen one drift off while not getting righted all the way and splash down after a nasty swirl. That (experienced) guy had to be rescued, at least to save his boat. I was watching from the banks and couln't spot him doing anything wrong in his righting procedure. Uncanny...

14 Turbo would probably fit the bill. Small enough to solo at 150 lbs but big enough sail area to have fun. And they are relatively cheap. Anything bigger and you probably want a crew for righting. An older hobie 17 may work also but the FXone is pretty pricey.

You won't be able to get a H18 back up solo at your weight, so I would not recommend. If you like pushing the limits make sure you are good at betting it back up for when you go over. I think that will be a big limiting factor on boat selection, and/or you will need to get creative on righting techniques. I would also recommend Dacron sails since they are more durable for when you land on the sail.

The big question is, which one is the fastest?

I have no empirical data, but i would GUESS the fastest commercially available cat on the market is an x-40. lucky for you they just came out with a newer, cheaper model x-32.

buuhh99 wrote: I love flying Hulls, BIG WIND, and anything that makes me feel like I am going to die (even though I am only doing like 20 knots). Over powered boats, while maybe not the fastest, seem to just make me smile.

buuhh99 wrote:
The big question is, which one is the fastest?

I think these two things are not the same. The fastest boat may not be the one that gives you the wildest ride. If you are looking for hull flying feeling like you are going to die, that is probably not the same goal as being the fastest, which is usually as controlled as possible for the conditions with a hull barely out of the water (as a general rule).

A H14T or H16 are good for wild rides in big wind conditions, and you can probably get them back upright too and set them up solo also. They are fast enough to be exciting and not so technical to require a lot of extra thinking. Also a lot available for a good price.

Any sailboat can be a wild ride in enough wind! 👿 But I guess you know that.

That H14 with the H16 rig must have been crazy overpowered if it had the H16 sails.

At your weight the H14 or H16 with spin would be hot. If you get the H16 you'll need to learn some righting equipment and technique to be able to right solo which is a must. Safety first please, wear your PFD always when solo. (even better always always) Remember the goal is to FEEL like you are going to die.

You mention from H14 to Tornado, what is your budget? Do you want to race or just cut up? Where will you be sailing most of the time?

Please fill out your profile and you might find some local sailors to help.

You can soup up a Hobie 14, there are a bunch of lightweight crazies who have created their own "14MX" class by putting square-head mains and spins on Hobie 14's.

Those are quite the set-ups. I don't know anything about "spin's" on a cat, I would have thought they were gennaker's up front. Googling now, but if anyone has a good link that would be great.

I would have thought they were gennaker's up front.

you can use spins, genni's, code zero's (combo of spin and genni) etc... but with MODERN designs beach cats ALMOST exclusively we use asymmetrical spins for racing.

http://www.doylesails.com/detroit/racing/asymmetrical.html

edited by: andrewscott, Mar 30, 2010 - 03:52 PM

Like Andrew said, the terminology of modern "pole mounted" head sails has a lot of overlap.

Those in the picture I'm pretty sure are furling headsails. More common on beachcats is the spinnaker snuffer systems. But the spinnakers used on cats with snuffers are almost as flat as those shown.

The snuffer bag hangs under the pole and holds the chute ready to launch, no packing.


The snuffer systems get the sail up and trimmed really fast, like magic.

Thanks for answering the newbie question. I'm purely a recreational sailor, I did a very small amount of racing as crew years ago, but never got the chance to work with spinnakers.

Yeah, the one downside with Cats is that they are a little slow downwind (at least compared with reaching performance). Tripling your sail area with an assymetrical spin makes up for that in a huge way. Code 0's or hooters, like on the H14s above were pretty popular when the spin rigs were less well developed. Now they have fallen a little out of favor but because you can't go as far downwind with them. They are still viable and tend to be a slightly simpler setup once everything is put together (less rigging to deal with on the tramp).

I have no connection, but it looks like one of the H14T with a hooter is for sail on ebay. Looks like one of the ones from the pictures Damon posted above.

I think that boat would fit your criteria fairly well.

Thoes are the same cats #420 #99.... I'am surprised he doesn't have any bids on it yet~~~ NO I can't, I already have a 17 & 18...... but havin a 14 like that!!! HHMMMM?

popeyez7 wrote: I'am surprised he doesn't have any bids on it yet

I'm just surprised he is trying to sell it on eBay when all the catamaran buyers are here on this site. 😀

took the ole blue ribbon out on sea trials yesterday in biloxi, 25 kt. winds steady out of east southeast. you didn't need any extra sail for some "crazy sailing". those h 14's look like they would have flown like a kite with the main sail only! the wind picked up as it got later but the freshly painted and newly repaired blue ribbon handled the trials "at full capacity", can't say the same for my buddies p-15, system overload. the skinny people were cold, the big boys were sweating....good times!

The H14T has no title, I don't know about other states, but I think that is a deal killer in Illinois unless you have a private lake to sail on.

edited by: kgatesman, Apr 03, 2010 - 01:03 PM

*I will fill out my profile as soon as I get some extra time*

I sail here at Purdue (Indiana), our team is ok, we seem to do pretty poorly at the regattas but we have fun. I would race if there were some local places to do it. My parents and sailing friends are in MN so I would trailer the rig up there when I go to visit and such.

I am graduating in May so depending on where I end up I might be in Indy, Chicago, S. Carolina, or Maybe Denver. I am looking at a 16 right now but I am really digging that 14MX rig. I am going to look in that more.

If I were to get an 18 I would totatlly need another person. I have a friend with an 18sx that I want to convince me to let try. For me it is a decision of weather or not getting a crew to go is worth the extra fun the boat has to offer. I love sailing with people, (I am not a fan of being out there alone) but the lighter weight gives a wilder ride.

How does an FXone handle with another person?

Does an 18 get out of the water like a 16 or can you really feel the extra mass?

I am a self taught sailor so I assume the larger the sail area the more power the boat is going to have. My brain disconnects when I see that the 18 has less sail area than the 16. Why is that?

I will probably get a cheap boat to start, but I am not afraid to purchase something like a Fxone given the right seller, I just worry that for the money I would be better of getting a 16 and rigging it well. A tornado is a dream, but I would probably build my own if I was going to invest that cash. A trifoiler would be cool to..

PURDUE? AS IN DREW BREES, BEST NFL QUARTERBACK, WHO DEFEATED PEYTON MANNING, ELI MANNING, TOM BRADY, BRETT FAVRE, CURT WARNER, ALL IN ONE SEASON! LOVE THAT SCHOOL!

Go big or go home. F18HT.

Does an 18 get out of the water like a 16 or can you really feel the extra mass?

I believe you can feel the extra weight of the H18 when sailing. For me it is easier to keep a hull on a H16 out of the water then it is an 18. Both will come out of the water well but it seems like the 18 is harder to keep up. Could also be my fear of flipping solo on it 😉

I am however very happy I went to the 18 magnum. For me it is all about the wings and the extra space and comfort they provide. Not to mention being trapped out off the wing, which is a great experience, it gets you that extra couple feet in the air other 8' wide cats can not do. Not sure if I personally would take a standard H18 over a H16 if just sailing with up to 2 people.

If you move to Chicago and sail on Lake Michigan be very careful if you plan to sail solo.

My brain disconnects when I see that the 18 has less sail area than the 16. Why is that?

Not sure where you got that data, here is the data from the Hobie site ( http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_hobie16.html)

H18 Specifications:
Length: 18'
Beam: 8'
Mast Length: 29' 7"
Sail Area: 220 Sq. Ft.
Weight: 450 lbs.

H16
Specifications:
Length: 16' 7"
Beam: 7' 11"
Mast Length: 26' 6"
Sail Area: 218 Sq. Ft.
Weight: 320 lbs.

I have owned both. The 18 is a more modern cat, handles crew/weight better (or at least can handle more) and is a fine boat.

That being said, they both are fun, they both can be wild and exciting in med-heavy air and neither is wrong.

the pros of the 16 are: lighter, millions of parts available, easier to right, and move around the beach and less sail shape tuning controls (makes it easier to learn/use) and handles waves well

Cons: pitchpoles a bit easier (flip forward), smaller trampoline area, less jib/sail shape controls (yes its also a pro)

the pros of the 18 are: more room on-board, points better to wind (and tacks) easier with boards and thats about it.

cons: HEAVY MAST, HEAVY BOAT to move around the beach, harder to right, flat hulls CAN make sailing in waves a lot rougher (some people love that)

IMHO.. i usually suggest people start with a 16 and move up. I PERSONALLY loved both cats.. but the 16 is a bit more WILD, easier to fly a hull,

It looks like the data on the the Hobie site at
http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_18sx.html
is wrong for the 18, I'm not sure if that is actually the 18SX specs (the mast height is SX), if so I didn't know the SX has less sail than the regular 18-18SE-18Magnum.

Class specs for the Hobie 18 are

Length 18'
Beam 8'
Min. Class Weight 400 lbs.
Draft (Boards Down) 2'6'
Mast Length 28'1'
Total Sail Area 240 sq. ft.
Hull Construction Fiberglass/Foam Sandwich
Designers Hobie Alter & Phil Edwards

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/?Page=2178

Are you sailing solo, or with crew?

I saw you mention the Tornado and can tell you that they are fast. I think that Marstrom 20 Carbon is a little faster and Nacra just introduced a N20 Carbon that is expected to be fast. None of these boats are really geared towards anything but racing.

I sailed a Tornado Classic back in the early 90s and they are not that wild a ride. The beam means that they react predictably even in very heavy air and the high volume hulls prevent pitchpoling unless you are really pushing hard in large wave. The Squaretop Tornado may be a different story, but I doubt it. Tornados are also difficult to right and unless you have a crew member that is much larger than yourself, you will have trouble.

If you really enjoy feeling like your life is about to end, try a skiff. They may not be quite as fast, but the terror factor is definitely there. If you do want to stick to Cats, the true racing cats are probably not your best bet.

I would look for something light that you can move and right by yourself, but don't go so light taht the boat isn't durable. Unfortunately for you, the more modern designs are built for speed and stability.

It looks like the data on the the Hobie site at
http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_18sx.html
is wrong for the 18

I thought the data seemed odd... my 18 didnt weigh 450 (until i added the beer) and i thought the different models had different sail area.. at least by a few ft

The Squaretop Tornado may be a different story

square tops don't add much to the craziness factor. they do add some power, but in a blow.. that extra sail area (top) flaps and shakes off air, and self de-powers a bit.

The square top Tornado also added an asymmetrical spin and double trap, but I suspect that you are right Andrew. The Tornado Classic was such a well balanced boat that I would be surprised if the class association allowed any changes that would cause it to be crazy.

andrewscott wrote:
I thought the data seemed odd... my 18 didnt weigh 450

450lbs would be pretty heavy for an 18 foot boat. My 5.5 weighs in at 340lbs ready to sail. I think that the sl version with the jib and aluminum mast is only 375 lbs.

rpiper138 wrote:
450lbs would be pretty heavy for an 18 foot boat. My 5.5 weighs in at 340lbs ready to sail. I think that the sl version with the jib and aluminum mast is only 375 lbs.

my H18 was closer to 420 lbs, but add 20 or more for cooler and gear... (i carry A LOT of saftey gear and spare parts)

My Mystere 5.5 is rated at 415lbs ready to sail.. again add 20 for gear... ok 2 for gear, 18 for rum!~

edited by: andrewscott, Apr 05, 2010 - 05:46 PM