5/32 " 1X19 VINYL COATED ss WIRE

dyneema, amsteel rope(used on all Americas Cup craft for last 10 years) often on sale by the spool at West Marine, a Chinese version black in color much cheaper on line, I bought a stainless ,with high nickle content( the more nickle the more rust resistant)spool 500 feet thru Defenders(i waited for sale price) but distributor was in the south east of US probably too costly to ship to downunder. I have 2 Dart 18s, had Nacra 5.2.5.5sl.5.7, 570 and Hobie 18 but that must be by elimination a Windrider foiling in you photo/please clue us in on performance

nofearofflying wrote: dyneema, amsteel rope(used on all Americas Cup craft for last 10 years) often on sale by the spool at West Marine, a Chinese version black in color much cheaper on line, I bought a stainless ,with high nickle content( the more nickle the more rust resistant)spool 500 feet thru Defenders(i waited for sale price) but distributor was in the south east of US probably too costly to ship to downunder. I have 2 Dart 18s, had Nacra 5.2.5.5sl.5.7, 570 and Hobie 18 but that must be by elimination a Windrider foiling in you photo/please clue us in on performance

huh?

huh?

+1

PS West Marine in Fort Lauderdale Fla just fashioned(ask for Thurston) 2 "flexible" bridle wires/bow shrouds with flexible stainless(my son Andre and I out on D18 and starboard bridal wire failed at juncture with eyelet & bow shackle/ we came about immediately in 18 Ks gusting to 30Ks and miraculously the sails filled lifting the mast almost upright and we sailed back!)because Thurston felt he could not successfully make up with having to bend regular stainless over 'eyelets' as they had done for me before. I was initially reluctant because all my stays are intentionally oversized gauge stainless to accommodate mooring cat on mushroom anchors, the flexible wire he used was a smaller gauge. The new wires are extremely flexible and are coated. My mates Malcolm Stitt, Pete P(Tornados & iceboats) & Joe P(nacra 570) make up their stays. Why are you insistent on coated wire? We successfully use amsteel/synthetic on french made tri that carries a hugh genica and I always carry 60 feet in a hull and have used for forestay on Dart18 and N570 until replaced with stainless/ blizzard n'or easter here in "Big Apple " so im longwinded while "snowed in" expecting 17 inches

https://www.murrays.com/product/02-0051/

https://www.versales.com/p236/5-32amp;quot;-1x19-White-PVC-Coated-to-7-32amp;quot;-Imported-Stainless-Steel-Cable.htm

https://www.theoutdoorshop.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/theoutdoorshop/Categories/Decking__Balustrade_Systems/WireCable/1X19/1x19_PVC_Coated_Wire_Cable

Surprisingly hard to find. Change that 5/32 to 4mm and results improve.

Edited by gahamby on Feb 01, 2021 - 03:55 PM.

dyneema rope on sale as is swage tool at Defender,as are galvanized thimbles(eyelets)

Defender also has coated stainless but require you to specify

Man you gotta love the beachcats! some quick info, onekiwi is my handle but I live in California so no shipping overseas.The ready made shrouds seem kinda pricey but when you investigate the price of wire, fittings etc PLUS wrecked fingers from swageing tough wire they seem reasonable !! I need 5.8 shrouds maybe 6 inches longer as I have increased the width about 6 inches.Not really married to coated plain would be fine
Here we go on the rave
https://youtu.be/WHufItBUbqY
The Rave is a lot of fun but you have to be an octopus to sail it so many things to do while sailing!

Edited by onekiwi on Feb 02, 2021 - 12:47 AM.

McMaster Carr has the size wire you need, uncoated, sold in a variety of lengths, and generally delivered in a day.

sm

Not really married to coated plain would be fine

That makes it a whole lot easier. Uncoated 1x19 stainless is readily available.
1x19 is a pain to work with. I made my own standing rigging. Given it to do again, I would buy pre-made.
You probably can't go wrong with Murray's. You don't want to scrimp on standing rigging.

as are galvanized thimbles(eyelets)

I can't imagine using galvanized hardware anywhere on my boat.

gahamby wrote:

as are galvanized thimbles(eyelets)

I can't imagine using galvanized hardware anywhere on my boat.

+1
wouldn't last in my saltwater

Bahama rigging by me made up some REALLY sweet, hydraulically swaged, integrated fittings; the loop is one drop forged eye so there's no thimble. I balked at first at the price; but man are they nicer, with no sharp edges, etc. All 316 wire/fittings; plain. I think for the entire boat, all clevis pins, etc. was around $550ish. That's 2 stays, forestay and jib halyard. Expensive? I don't know, but it's some nice jewelry I won't worry about for a while.

Bahama rigging by me made up some REALLY sweet, hydraulically swaged,

Like this?

If so - i don't see much benefit vs nicropress -they both can (and do fail) often in the same spot / anaerobic areas

and unless you forgot to mention the bridals 550 sounds a little expensive - but you should never skimp on quality stays

Edited by MN3 on Feb 03, 2021 - 11:41 AM.

Yup - forgot bridal wires - it was turnkey, every wire on the boat, except trapeze. Those are close to the fittings; If I think about it, I'll get some pics, but same idea. Maybe a bit expensive, but it's a local guy, good reference and I could do in-person business with him. Want to support where I can. I could also validate that the wire and fittings really are 316 grade stainless.

And, yeah - I'm in saltwater here, so they are just as prone to corrosion as any other type fitting of same alloy I guess. Still, I think they're nicer handling, etc.

I agree on all points
if was a full set - 5 standing plus a halyard - that price is fair

supporting a local is a great thing
having local support now and in the future is a great thing
being able to drive to your supplier and not have to deal with shipping back any defects or issues is a great thing

YES they are nicer to handle, you wont get the bitter end of a steel cable stabbing or cutting you, they look nicer and have less room to bounce around when slack/snap back - that may save some wear and tear on your hardware

I have used these many times (i call them airplane fittings)

That's it - they look like airplane control cable fittings. I just wish I could afford the hydraulic tool used to make them, but can in no way justify the some $1,500 + to do so. I will, however stick to standard nico-press for the trapeze cables and nylon coated cables for comfort. Just replace frequently.

Since I'm doing that very soon, it begs the question - How high/long is standard for trap wires, if you have a choice? I have wings on my boat and will size for that, but also have adjusters I can add to the trap wires. Right now, the cables seem entirely too long as you struggle to get back on and kind of flop out to go out. Not good for the wings and their attachments...

if your trap wires are too long they are a bit of a man overboard hazard as they can easily come "unconnected" during trapping out or coming back in

You can ask other 21se owners here, or hobie forums or murry's or saltydog what "standard" is but you can also just measure what you have and remove the appropriate amount for your set up - conversely rig a line to your shackle/hound next time you rig and experiment with lengths via a bowline - tie off the line (to the mast probably) while you sail and when you take the mast down - remove the line and measure

ps coated wires prevent inspection - not a huge issue on trap wires as they aren't critical to keeping the mast up.. and it is real fun to watch crew go for a swim if they fail - not so funny when it happens to a skipper. i find wires rarely fail - it's almost always the fitting - but if the wires to break a few strands (again usually at the fitting) this may be hidden

My next trap wires will probably be 1' of steel cable and the rest dynema. the steel cable aloft will be to avoid chafe issues and the dynema will be easy and cheap for me to replace and splice as needed

Cool - For length, I was thinking about (really) at what height above the edge of the wings would be considered "about right"? For example - there's a youtoob video suggesting the bottom of the can't miss ring should be about a hands width or so above the upper, outer edge of the hull. Like the idea of a bolen and rope to start with as I can do this all in my back yard, where tools, etc. are close at hand. Guess that's the only way to see what may be right for me.

Thanks.

but also have adjusters I can add to the trap wires

I would add the adjusters and test the correct length with them. this will provide a wide range of "what is/feels right"

also the youtube vid was probably providing optimal setting for racing and doubtful it was on wings

i have found it pretty rare that i need to get out on the wire on a wing - it is fun but not usually needed as i don't sail in 25knots where i need weight THAT far out - ymmv

Then sail in 25 knot wind! I know you can do it!

911hobie wrote: Then sail in 25 knot wind! I know you can do it!

haha - the old me could/would - the current me is afraid of anything over 4knots 🙂

Huh - anything over 10-12 knots and I COULD use the extra weight out there, but the wings are nice to not have to mess with it. HOWEVER, if I got them, they might as well be right.

Huh - anything over 10-12 knots and I COULD use the extra weight out there

My bad - i was comparing your boat with mine

I don't even have trap wires rigged on either of my mysteres

i have found it pretty rare that i need to get out on the wire on a wing

I have had the unfortunate experience of being out on the wire on the wings on my hobie 18 burying the bow/wings and then connecting my head to the lee hull quite a fall! split ear on that one, started wearing a helmet after that excursion

ouch!
a helmet is really a good idea on any beachcat with a boom or that you trap - or sail aggressively

It's not unusual for me to have to aggressively play the mainsheet to keep a hull down while on the wing and more than I'd like be dragging a wing in the water, with full outhaul and downhaul on. I know I'm doing something wrong, just don't know exactly what it is, TBH. Getting more weight further out SEaMS reasonable, but with 10 feet of beam, plus another 2 for the wing, that's 10 foot plus above water (at an angle), much less falling off those things at full capsize and 12 feet. Yikes! That IS something to think about. A long ways to fall into a mast/boom/rigging, etc.

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

Edited by charlescarlis on Feb 05, 2021 - 10:13 AM.

yea - the pitfalls of owning a monster of a boat

how old are your sails? are they blown out? this will move your draft forward with the result of more heel and bow dive. might consider new sails for more responsiveness

are you sailing solo? If so you may consider a smaller sail for days where the air is med - heavy

How powerful is your downhaul? may want to add reeves to increase it's power - however if your mast is a tree like many older hobies are - this will be limited - same goes for your outhaul

may want to dig deeper into spreader settings to to help

Thanks - the sail is an Elliot Patteson, square top mylar near the end of it's life. Not Dacron; has decent shape but is wearing. Downhaul could easily be better, by a lot. The mast IS a tree; a big, heavy redwood of a tree, but it does bend. Never sail solo; at least not yet. We're 350-375 pounds, combined weight. I've got a real decent Tornado pin top sail I will try soon; needs some repair, but it's looking good and has a bit less area. 1 jib is tired, but fucntional mylar. The other is dacron, in great shape but is like 110% or something; it's bigger and very tough to get trimmed properly.

And - thank you for the advice.